Violin Forum/Message Board

John Cadd · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: What making system do you use?

This is a general question for any makers out there. If you had two minutes to describe your making "system " , what would you say? What do you believe works best and is the most important ? Names of book writers will not be a lot of use here unless you say what the book writer believes . Anything like dissolving in acid or boiling in camel dung would be classed as a system. (Damn it , I just gave away my best secrets ). Varnish can be accepted if you must point that way. You don`t have to be original if you don`t want to.
Maybe a better question would be --What systems are there? Then nobody has to be nervous . Partly this is to see if it`s better not to tell.

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: System

Trial and error.
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Southern Violin Association

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Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: System

I think you could consider

Inside Mould - traditional Italian method
OUtside Mould - French method
Built on the Back

I also know a maker that does the arching inside first, while most of us do the outside arch first then graduate. Not sure if that would be a "system" or just a method.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

John Cadd · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject:

Dave that would be your physical method but is there a part that you believe makes a certain kind of sound or tone? That sort of method. There are lots of --That won`t work --type of reactions but not much to fill the gap left. Is there a method you have heard of that gives consistent reliable results or does it boil down to good set-up methods?

Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: System

Thanks for clarifying...
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

okawbow · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: tone

Besides using willow for blocks and lining, I coat the outside and inside of the body with propolis resin disolved in acetone. When brushing on the solution; it typically penetrates to the back side of the wood.

I've been told by several good players that my instuments have a "mature" tone, like older instruments. It also makes them smell wonderful! Very Happy

John Cadd · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:57 am Post subject:

An inside out man. Did it feel risky when you did that first? Maybe we should all do at least one each like that . How careful are makers about the internal volume? If you keep strictly to the rib depth measurements of a good old violin and then use harder or softer wood the thickness difference will leave different air volumes . I knew there was a question nagging at the back of my head. It`s just beginning to surface now. Yes It`s starting to link up with conflicting information given in books and articles. One source says Stradivarius hardly ever changed the air volume. Is that really true? Is there a record kept when repairers open an instrument. Fine dry sand might give a good usable figure. Then plate tuning comments vary. One says the back is always one tone higher than the belly. Another says both plates are the same. ( Both stated for Stradivarius ) Also reports that Guarnerius made some with the back a semitone lower than the belly. That`s what I read. I`ve never held one. The Strad magazine gives thickness of plates but rarely mentions tap tones in the same article. But which tap tones matter? Where do you tap and where do you hold? Is a free plate anything like a plate attached to the rest of a violin? Who should you believe when it`s written down.(To every maker --a detractor. ) Maybe that`s the fun of it all.

okawbow · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject:

I don't even worry about tap tones anymore. I graduate the plates based on how they "feel" when I flex them. I set the rib height based on the difference of the plate thickness and arching from "normal". So, I guess I try to keep the internal volume the same.

I was not too worried about using propolis, as it has been used for centuries in one way or another on instruments.

John Cadd · Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:01 am Post subject:

When you say "any more" what changed your mind? What put you off tap tones?

okawbow · Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:35 am Post subject:

Janito · Member Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 114 Location: USA

Andres Sender · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:10 am Post subject:

Yes, and the post was going so well, too. Wink

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okawbow · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject:

Actually it is supported in the "all things being equal" statement.

I have found that identical violins as far as everything in materials, construction and set-up, but having diferent air volume because of rib height; sound different.

All the other factors also affect sound, but usually can be modified somewhat.

L P Reedy · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject:

Hmm. I've found that all violins made as identically as possible with the SAME air volume still sound different. Is it safe to assume that you have made a number of violins that all sound the same?

okawbow · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject:

My last 4 or 5 have been made with an effort to match the rib height, arching, and graduation, etc. of my best sounding violin to date. They all have a "good" easy to play, and similar sound. Better than earlier fiddles that were made more at random. No, they don't sound exactly the same. I'm obviously not good enough to get all the variables, including the air volume the same. but, they all have a similar voice, that is closer to my best violin than to earlier attempts. I believe volume is very difficult to reproduce, but worth the effort.

I think the best violins must have the right air volume, as well as all the other things right. It's not easy to get it all correct unless you make a lot of fiddles. I make archery longbows for a living. I've made upwards of 2000 bows in my lifetime, and am still finding ways to get better and more consistant. I may be getting too old to improve much more, though. Stadavari made hundreds of violins, and not all of them sounded the same. Of course, some were ruined by others "improving" them, but I'm sure some sounded better than the rest. I'm also sure he improved as he made more and more fiddles.