Violin Forum/Message Board

Cellobob · Junior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

I have owned a 1716 Boquay cello since 1980 - it has a very rich dark varnish. About a year ago it started to develop little white dots on the top plate. I can wipe them off with a rag, but they keep re-appearing. They are mostly on the upper right but also all over. Rarely on the back. Occasionally even on the fingerboard or tailpiece. I tried changing cello cases, thinking it came from the case. When I put other cellos in the same case, they have no problem. So, it is not the case. It also happens when the cello is out of the case overnight - so it is not rosin from the bow. Have any of you seen anything like this? Any idea what this is from and how to correct it or prevent it from happening?

james ansara · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: white dots

Can you post a picture?

Janito · Member Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 114 Location: USA

Cunning - first phase of Mars Attack, perhaps.

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject:

Have you tried setting it aside overnight in a different area? Any chance its coming from the ceiling or something else? What happens when you turn it around overnight, does it appear on the back instead?
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Cellobob · Junior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

Thanks for your replies so far. No, it is definitely not coming from the ceiling, and I have had the case (and the cello in and out of the case) in my studio and at my home. I took a couple of pictures today, but am not sure how to upload it here. Any advice?

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject:

Go to
http://imageshack.us/?x=my2
upload your pictures from your computer and a link adress will be created, then post that adress in your next post.
Looking forward to seeing the pics.... try to get one as close up as possible ... If you can't get it to work, send them as an attachment in an email to me, and I will post for you.
but I will be away most of tomorrow... maybe others will offer to do it sooner.
Good luck!... Mat

David Burgess · Junior Member Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

Cellobob · Junior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

OK - here are three pics - not great quality, I know. But maybe you can get the idea of the problem. In the first picture, you need to enlarge it greatly - you can see some of the dots on the tailpiece and the lower bouts, but they are really all over. The other pics are out of focus, and I will try to get some better ones if you need them. If you want to contact me directly, my email address is RJesselson@Mozart.sc.edu Thanks for your help!

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4777/cello1.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/i/cello2.jpg/
http://img832.imageshack.us/i/cello3.jpg/

Mat Roop · Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject:

Hey Cellobob... never seen the likes... I don't know where you hail from, but is it warm and humid where you are?
What do you clean the cello with?... it looks very shiny.
I am suspecting one of two...
1-mould of some sort and the best way to deal with mould is a wipe down with a bleach solution of 10-15% chlorine bleach in water..that will kill the mould on the surface.
Generally, the bleach solution should not affect the varnish... but you never can be too sure so be sure to test a very small spot somewhere generally invisible like near the tailpin.
2-Could also be a wax bloom... never heard of it on instruments, but depending on the polish used, anything is possible. Here is a thread on wax bloom in the art business to get you thinking...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467938
Good luck!../. Mat

Dave Chandler · Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: Cello spots

Any way to determine if there more white spots inside and maybe they're migrating out just with air movement?
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Cellobob · Junior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

Thanks again for all your responses. Mat, I live in the South (SC), but the cello is in my studio at school, which is pretty consistently 72 degrees. Interesting ideas about the mould or wax bloom. None of my other cellos have this problem, and I have switched cases.

Dave, no, there are none inside that I can see. The cello was French polished years ago by Moennig before I got it from him - it has been all over the world with me, and never had any problems.

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:02 am Post subject:

OK, so it only happens with this cello, so its not environmental. If this is the only one you play, could it be dandruff or excema? (gotta ask)

You might take a magnifying glass and go over the pegbox and scroll area (in fact you might look under the fingerboard as well) real closely and look for very small holes.

If you have a good graduate school in the area, you might also take samples of the spots (pick them up with scotch tape and fold the tape back over the top) to an entymology lab. (I'd probably call first and see if one of the professors can point you towards a particularly sharp student that might like to make a couple bucks in the evening looking through a microscope).

If you really like this instrument, you need to start thinking of getting it to a professional restorer to give it a good look over. Judging by the few responses to this thread, none of us has experienced this, at least not in instuments.

Being in real estate, I do come across things like powder post beetle which makes a very small entry hole less than 1mm, and leaves powder and dust behind. Also, in cutting wood for violins the outer few inches of most spruce (at least here in the Appalachians) is riddled with small boring worms, even living and standing wood can be infected.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Chad48309 · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 110 Location: Michigan

Janito · Member Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 114 Location: USA

Let's revisit the 'facts'...the dots are everywhere on the outside, including the tailpiece.

You would have to have had a pretty massive infestation to generate that many 'fines' from boreholes - or the case with the cello inside was shaken vigorously to distribute them as described.

The simple quesition has not been asked...if you apply your finger to them, do they stick to it and leave no mark on the varnish.

Until I see contrary information, I will classify this as an entertaining 'spoof'.

Lemuel · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject:

Yes, I was thinking of the same thing. The dots also appear sometimes on the fingerboard. Also these "pests" would more than likely spread to other wooden parts of the home - since these white dots started appearing about a year ago.

It appears that something was done to the varnish years ago and is now or has been changing in chemistry - causing this manifestation.