Violin Forum/Message Board

Dave Chandler · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: Curing Maple

Yesterday I was fortunate to stumble on a large maple that had fallen across the road up in the National Forest sometime in the last week or so, although several large logs were removed (and presumeably went to market) there's still about 8' of trunk. (diameter is about 20" at about 4' above groundl This morning I cut and removed two logs (I have a permit) about 22" each and then cut them into 8 pieces (quarters). The logs are saturated with sap, but great opportunity to get some free wood. I took my hand-held planer and cleaned up some edges and the curl looks to be about average, but improving as the hours pass and the wood starts to dry. Although average curl, the grain is extremely tight (for maple in these parts) and even, and consistent blond/white color except for the heartwood and the last inch under the bark.

I've moved these pieces into my storage area under the house.

Qustion #1: Should I wait a couple days to seal with wax, or is it imperative as wet as it is to seal it right away?

Question #2: Should I remove the bark, or is it better to leave the bark on until cutting up into individual wedges down the road?

Question #3: At what point is it appropriate to cut it up into violin-size wedges?
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Chet Bishop · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject:

What I was just told (when I asked the same questions a few weeks ago, of Bruce Harvey of Orcas Island Tonewoods), was that:

1. the bark needs to come off immediately
2. the ends need to be sealed but that won't help much unless you also
3. cut it into billets immediately, reseal the ends, and stack for drying.

Chet

here is what I am trying to deal with (the white stuff is anchorseal):

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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

Jack H. · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject:

Looks nice Chet! Good luck. In a few years it should be ready for the plane of the wood burning stove!

Chet Bishop · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject:

Fortunately I heat with wood! Very Happy

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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

Dave Chandler · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: Wood

Gorgeous wood! Oh that I had a maple in my yard, it wouldn't last too long! Seems all my wood has to be humped overland.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject:

Dave,

The maple I have cut has been moist to the point that I milled it into billets and stacked it to dry before sealing the ends. For about a week I could see the ends and how wet the center was, so I think sealing it too soon would have sealed the water in.
Some of the pieces developed a very slight greying in the center which I have seen on eastern maples from various sources, I think it is curing related. Definitely not spalting or anything severe.
Once the ends looked dry I watched it for any cracks and once I saw a few I sealed the ends. Clear sealer is good so that you can see the growth lines when you are milling it further.
A gentle fan is good. There are so many variables (location/micro-climate) you have to judge for yourself.
Underneath a house would seem too humid and cool. The initial days and weeks are the most important I think.

Chet Bishop · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject:

The reason you seal the ends immediately is to force the drying to occur radially, through the sides, not the ends. To do otherwise is begging for checking, due to more rapid shrinking at the ends.

Ignore this at your peril. If that wood is valuable to you, please heed the warning.
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Curing Maple

Don, yes it does get moist and warm in summer but its got lots of space around it and I keep a fan circulating air.

Using a small hand held planer, I made the ends perfectly smooth, and that reduces the surface area probably as much as 50% by smoothing it out, and makes applying sealer easier, and uses less sealer. Not to mention it makes the grain much more visible.

I think sealing the ends immediately can't be wrong. I've got some Flood brand deck sealer that is very wax-like, left over from deck sealing this past spring. It went on immediately after cutting the maple, very nicely and dried right up even though the wood is so wet its weeping water through every pore.

Appreciate everyone's input.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:15 am Post subject:

The general rule is to seal the ends soon and that may be the best way to go, but the tree I milled was so wet it made sense to let the water get out of the billets as quick as possible, before sealing the ends. I was milling it a day after the tree was cut, milling for days!! It's a lot of work.

In May in one room in my shop it is not that warm so stacking it with good air circulation and keeping an eye on it for checking worked pretty well. Checking wasn't a problem in out of 100+ back/neck sets.

Dave I have this funny image in my head , from your description, of you walking along a road and literally stumbling on a log of curly maple, violin maker's dumb luck, the kind we want to have!
I was lucky to be around my house and hear some chainsaws running and went to investigate and found this red maple tree a neighbor was having cut down because he thought it was rotten. Thinking to myself 'I'm glad it's not rotten'!
I hope you get some nice wood there to make violin out of!

BK · Member Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 60

Hi Dave,

How is the curing process coming along for you?

I was also curious what type of license you needed to acquire in order to collect logs. Of course, it may differ for each state, I presume.

-BK

Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: Collecting wood

If you want to collect wood on public land, i.e. national forest, there are stringent rules. First, you have to go to the local Forest Service office and get a "firewood cutting" permit. Its usually good for 90 days, cost $20, and you can cut wood that is dead and down. You also can't cut up wood within 50' of the road or marked hiking trails. You can take up to 4 cords of wood with this permit, and have to have it with you all the time, and document how much you take out. If you have a helper, they also have to have a permit.

When I found this maple, it was uprooted, laying across a forest service road. The Forest Service had cut the part laying across the road and left me about 8' of trunk. It really wasn't technically dead, but its roots were out of the ground and it was laying on its side.

Its had all winter to dry, and its looking very good. Had a fan going all winter long.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

mikemolnar · Member Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 57

Chet,

I know this post has been around for awhile, but have you verified that it is maple? The color and figure look a lot like koa. But you guys on the West Coast have a lot of other interesting wood that looks like this.

Mike

Chet Bishop · Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Is it Maple?

BK · Member Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 60

Just picked up some logs of willow from a tree that had fallen over from our hurricane last week. Was going to use it for linings and blocks.

I am imagining the drying process works the same for willow as it would for maple. Need to cut off the bark, seal the ends, ect.

BK · Member Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 60

I ended up stacking it under my porch, which is outside but protected from the rain. Not sure how it'll go. We'll see.

I also put it up off of the ground on some boards, so hopefully that will keep mildew and little critters off of it a little.

Willow is an interesting looking wood. It reminds me of spruce a little bit in how it cuts (probably why you can substitute it for linings and blocks). The bark seems to peel right off of it without a problem too, which was convenient and saved me some work.

(A little off topic, but..) I was doing some research last night into spruce because I was curious about what type of spruce the old Italian makers probably used for their tops. Darnton says in an article that he does not like Engelman and Red Spruce, so I was curious what was the preferred wood to use for tops. As always, the closer you can get to what the Cremonese makers used, the better. My internet research pointed to Norwegian spruce harvested north of Italy (Switzerland, Austria, Germany). Mainly getting this info from the following article. Interesting read:

http://www.bekkerviolins.com/node/144

Darnton's article:
www.darntonviolins.com/violinmagazine/book/wood.pdf