Violin Forum/Message Board

[Mat Roop]

I have acquired a poor copy of a Paolo Maginni, but a nice violin just the same, but when I went to set it up the neck is out of alignment by about 1.5mm at the end of the fingerboard. It appears to have been that way since day one.
What is the recommendation to fix this...
1- loosen top & back from the neck block and a short section of ribs & reglue at the correct alignment. The amount of ajustment is very minimal.... likely would not be noticeable at the ribs?
or
2- Remove neck and reset.
3- leave it as it is... sounds OK but might be much better if corrected?

Seems to me that option 1 is much easier... Appreciate your thoughts!
Cheers, Mat

[Michael Darnton]

Couldn't you use the practice? I'd reset it.
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[Mat Roop]

Thanks Michael... you are so right... and I knew it all along that a reset was what was needed, but then my lazy bones said... its only a $500 fiddle and its only 1.5 mm... surely I can fudge it!
Ok... a reset it is. I will try to use your karate Chop recommended method of neck removal... but can't find your post on the subject...
1- do you remove the fingerboard or leave it on for strength?
2- how far down do you cut between the button and heel?... just to the ribs, but past the edge of the back? After the saw cut do you work a knife into the remaining seam?
3- do you inject alcohol into the cuts before the chop?
4- Do you clamp the body securely so that the shock of the chop is not dampened?
5-where do you strike the neck... at the nut I would guess?
6-do you use spruce or ? for filling the mortice?
Sorry for the many questions... but your advice is most appreciated!
Cheers, Mat

[Michael Darnton]

First, check that the upper block is securely glued to top and back, as are the ribs. This is very important--you don't want to be left holding the loose neck with the block still attached and the ribs broken. Don't take off the board; make sure it's glued on well, too.

Saw down the sides of the neck all the way to the bottom of the mortise, and all the way to the back. To get to the back at the back bottom corner of the cut, you'll have to pick out with the tip of the saw. Watch out for the saw coming all the way out of the cut by accident and cutting a scratch down the front next to the fingerboard. Make extra sure the rib at the back has been cut through--otherwise you'll rip out a piece of rib with the back of the heel.

Saw down the heel just in front of the button (as close as you dare, without touching the button, all the way to the ribs. Don't cut the top of the ribs. Take a spatula (I have a pallet knife with the end sharpened square, to get into the corners) and tap it down the cut next to the button, all the way to the bottom of the mortise, below the bottom of your saw cut, breaking the back loose from the heel. The spatula should be thinner than your saw kerf so that you don't break the button.

Check again that the block and ribs are tightly glued. If you're not sure, put on closing clamps.

Drop a few drops of alcohol down the kerfs at the side of the neck, not so much that it drips anywhere like down the front. Just a couple of drops is enough.

Rest the instrument on your bench, on one edge, a towel between the edge and the bench. I put the treble edge down. Hold the instrument down with your right hand and forearm, hooking your fingers on the E side of the bottom of the board, pulling sideways.

Smack the side of the neck just under the nut, lightly, with the edge of your left hand, while your right is pulling upwards, sideways, on the board. Listen for a crack as the bottom of the heel breaks loose from the block. If you don't get any movement or noise, flip the instrument over and try from the other direction. A combination of hitting the neck towards the bench and pulling up on the board should do it. Sometimes I press down on the neck, pulling up (sideways) on the board, sometimes I wiggle them, give a few more smacks, etc. Eventually the neck should come out. Maybe a few more drops of alcohol will help.

I have never broken a button, pulled out a block, or cracked a top or back doing this. If nothing's happening, look in through the end pin hole to see if there's a screw or dowel holding the neck on.

Keep trying a combination of smacking and wiggling until something gives. Repeated stress at a low level will accomplish the job without breaking anything, so don't be too tempted to stretch into the zone where you're worried about breaking something you don't want to break. Work up to stronger hitting and pulling slowly: you have all the time in the world at this point. Usually nothing will happen, and you'll be wondering if anything will, and then the neck breaks loose all at once. Don't expect a gradual loosening.

Fill the hole in the block with basswood or willow, fit like setting a neck. Add a piece on the back of the heel to replace what you sawed off, but make it 10mm thick so it won't warp away from the heel when glue hits it. Make it overhang a mm or two all around. You can rebuild the edge of the top to fill the hole there. Sometimes I wait and just put in spruce slips on either side of the neck after it's set, if I know the reset will be going in full depth. You can't leave an empty hole between the bottom of the reset neck and the top, though.

If you scoop the side profile of the whole heel a bit while shaping the piece added on the heel, without cutting at the joint between the two, you can trumpet the back of the heel enough to not have to cut anything off the edges of the button when you refit the neck. Don't trumpet the heel sides so that they're wider at the button than any point ahead of there, or you won't be able to fit the neck. :-). Don't worry about the varnish on the heel--you're going to take all of that off before you revarnish the heel, not just retouch the varnish on the heel. (Retouching takes too much time and never will look good.)
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[Mat Roop]

Thanks Michael! Instructions are clear...all I have to do now is just do it!
Cheers, Mat

[Violin Repair Guy]

Hey Michael Darnton
Thanks for the great responses. This was not my post but I found your information very informative.
_________________
Eric Luthier
The Violin Repair Guy

[Jack H.]

Mat, How did you discern the neck is out of alignment? did you first find the center of the instrument and not just eye ball it by the ffs because the ffs might not be centered on the instrument, did you then put the bridge in the proper location as per the bass bar and the centering then sight down the fb? sometimes the ends of the fb are not even, you have to take 2 straight edges and check this where they line up with the scroll... might just need a bit planed off one side of the fb. check it all to make sure.

Jack

[jethro]

I have only done that manouver once and the glue was only about 2 weeks old ( correcting an "oh-crap" incident )
I took an exacto knife and started slowly digging into the side joints.
after about 1/2 way in, took another exacto blade and ground it so that it
had a small hook on the end, with the inside of the hook like a plane blade. so I could slide it in the crack I had opened and draw it out
shaving a layer of glue out of the joint with each pass. also used alcahol
drops intermittently to keep it soft. also used it on the button joint.
It cut a kerf just the width of the blade.
I would be too chicken to use Michaels method unless he can make us a
U-Tube video to boost my self confidence , and we still wouldn't have his
magic jou-jou dust to make it work perfectly !

Anyone else tried the hook blade thing ?????

[Dave Chandler]

I recently completed a Guarneri rather too hurridly from some leftover wood scraps and made an error in setting the neck. I had only 4mm rise above the front edge of the plate, and I figured as long as I got my 27mm projection it would be no issue. Wrong!! When strung up there was only about 1.5mm fingerboard clearance over the arching where the belly rises quickly out of the channel. It turns out the neck was also unusually flexible so that the fingerboard would drop more than 1 mm when fully strung and brought up to tune.

So I decided to remove the neck and splice in a piece above the button. AND I made this decision last night when reading Michael's comment that we could probably use the practice anyway. AND its my own fiddle that I just can't let out into public the way it is.

I did just everything that Michael mentions, but add an additional step. I'm a bit timid about using force so I remove the fingerboard and go into the mortise with a hot sharpened pallette knife, and few drops of very hot water from an eyedropper to loosen the glue where the knife doesn't quite reach. When I think I've got 70 or 80% of the mortise seperated, then I go ahead and use force to break the neck out of the mortise. Very little splintering, not a lot of force, pretty clean break.

I'm adding a 2mm splice in at the bottom of the heel, and will shoot for 28 or 29mm projection when gluing it in. This should, when strung up, provide approx 27mm projection to the bridge (because of this light and flexible soft maple neck I'm using). It will also give me more space between the belly and the fingerboard.

I'd be curious to hear if this is an absolute no no, or if its just another way to "skin the cat".
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[Dave Chandler]

Jethro, I like the hook blade thing, sounds like a good way to reopen the joint where the neck butts up against the ribs.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[actonern]

Michael, there must be a special reward "up there" for this kind of sharing...

Fantastic!

E

[Mat Roop]