Violin Forum/Message Board

famuswood · Member Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 75 Location: Smyrna, TN

I'm wondering if there is a most copied violin and why makers decide to copy it. I'm trying to decide on one for my second violin. Any thoughts?

Andres Sender · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject:

I doubt anyone knows the answer to this, there are no surveys taken. Wink

I would bet that the most copied maker is Stradivari, with Del Gesu a close second. But if you narrow the time frame to, say, the last 10 years, then I suspect Del Gesu might come out in front.

But since your choice is limited to instruments for which detailed information is currently available, I’d say you should get the Strad magazine poster of the Titian Stradivari. If you want to do a Del Gesu and can’t get the Biddulph 2-volume book, then see if the Strad poster for the Alard is still available.

CT Dolan · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 143

Ditto on that one. If you want to do a copy (or use an instrument as a model) and haven't the Biddulph books, get the Strad poster of the Titian, so much information it has. Second for a Strad model would be the poster of the Kruse. The Alard by del Gesu poster is no longer available, I believe, but looking at the arch I would think it would take some extraordinary wood to make that model work!

CT Dolan · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 143

Another thing about using the work of Stradivari as a model is that the level of precision in workmanship is such that some aspects of an instrument will likely be much easier to duplicate (more stable or predictable reference points). This thought alone has caused me to re-consider the model for my first, and I have as of late been giving serious consideration to the Titian and the Kruse (as well as the Millanolo).

Andres Sender · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject:

CTD–well I’ll be, the Alard is quite scoopy isn’t it? Just as well then that it’s no longer available.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject:

I'm inclined to say that the most copied violin right now might be either the "Cannone" or Lord Wilton del Gesu. I'm not so sure why one might want to move with the masses, though. :-) If what's needed is a good, safe, model, the Kreisler del Gesu is almost foolproof, I would think, and Rembert Wurlitzer declared it the finest concert violin in existence, so it doesn't seem to be lacking in quality. About 15 years ago, that might have been the most copied one, but it's not the flavor of the month right now.

CT Dolan · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 143

Interesting you should mention that, because for a time the Kreisler del Gesu weighed heavily on my mind, but I was given the opposite impression of its use as a model so I dismissed the idea and moved on to another. I'll take your word for it, though, and put the Kreisler back in the running!

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject:

The thing about it is that it's sort of a Strad/del Gesu, and right now funky del Gesu models are more popular, but I don't think there's a better-designed violin from a tonal aspect, if you keep the grads a bit thicker than the original (which is on the margin of frighteningly thin) and don't mind the mutt of a model.

Sharron · Junior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 7 Location: UK

Could you tell me if this is the Kreisler poster.

http://www.orpheusmusicshop.com/category-9/P110.html

Sharron

Michael Darnton · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:31 am Post subject:

No, that doesn't seem to be it.

Sharron · Junior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 7 Location: UK

Thanks Michael, I wasn't sure.
I couldn't find the Kreisler on the site which is why I asked.
Do you have any views of the Titian as far as models go?

Sharron

CT Dolan · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 143

"The thing about it is that it's sort of a Strad/del Gesu, and right now funky del Gesu models are more popular, but I don't think there's a better-designed violin from a tonal aspect, if you keep the grads a bit thicker than the original (which is on the margin of frighteningly thin) and don't mind the mutt of a model."

It's a beautiful violin (the outline in particular), and such a curious thing that the bass f-hole is so unbelievably near in form to those on the Betts Stradivari. It makes one think that Stradivari's template somehow wound up in the hands of del Gesu. Or, even more curious, that del Gesu may have brought the plate to Stradivari's shop (for whatever reason, who knows), and cut the f-holes there using Stradivari's template. Or, perhaps he was in good graces with one or more of Stradivari's sons and there was some collaboration that took place. Or, maybe Stradivari was in admiration of what del Gesu was achieving, and something took place between the two of them. Anyway, it is a very curious thing, the f-holes on the Kreisler, and so unique among anything I have seen from del Gesu.

On another note, thank you very much for the feedback on the grads, I will certainly bear your advice in mind should I pursue the path of the Kreisler.

Sharron, here's a couple links having to do with the Kreisler:

http://www.roger-hargrave.de/Seiten/Bibliothek/Bibliothek.htm

(follow the link above toward the bottom of the page and you will find an article on the violin)

http://memory.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200154814/default.html

(follow the various links on the left-hand side, "Image Views" and other, for some really great shots of the instrument)

Disregard the fact that the Library of Congress assigns a date of 1730, whereas Roger Hargrave assigns a date of 1733. Perhaps since Roger's article has been written there has been a change of mind from within the community, or perhaps there is more than one opinion floating about (not all that uncommon a thing).

If you would like more information on this violin, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

Chris

Sharron · Junior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 7 Location: UK

Thanks Chris, I will pm you I am sure Laughing

I have the Hargrave article but would have liked the poster.
Emailed the Strad and awaiting a reply.
The pictures and detail on the 2nd link I have saved. I didn't know
about those so thanks for the pointer.
I need an outline and graduation patterns to get started.

Thanks.

Sharron

Joseph Leahy · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject:

Sharron · Junior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 7 Location: UK

After looking at the photographs on this site
http://memory.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200154814/default.html

I am wondering about the conflicting images.
No ebony crown on no.1 pic but No. 3 side view shows it with an ebony crown.
The corners look different too on no.8

Anyone have any ideas ?

Sharron