Violin Forum/Message Board

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

Okay, so the humidity dropped like a rock where I live last weekend. It didn't affect me much as I keep the room at around 50-60% humidity where I keep my violins.

However, one of my violins that is now owned by someone else was greatly affected by the change. About one month ago I put new pegs on the violin. They were snug when it left me and I cut the ends off so they were almost flush with the side of the pegbox. However, when I saw it today, the peg ends were sticking out almost 1/4 inch! I thought someone else had messed with it but they were definitely my pegs. I remember that the wood on this neck seemed somewhat soft but this just floored me. Is this even possible? Well, I know it is because I saw it with my own eyes but this much of a change - how? Can maple dry out this much and in one month? I'm somewhat bewildered. I've ran into pegs shifting a little with the seasons but I've never seen this much of a shift.

I would like to redo the pegs but here's the flip side. If this wood can swell or shrink this much, what happens if I redo them and then summer comes? Thanks in advance for any advice.

kjb · Super Member Joined: 06 Feb 2013 Posts: 385

the one I am playing , the pegs loosened a little on the e and the c (5 string) other than that no problem and nothing like you are talking about, i started burning wood in the house which drops the humidity pretty fast, but maybe it was slower than what you experienced? 1/4" seems pretty radical. it will be interesting to hear what other answers come up .. thanks for posting this.

Ken Pollard · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pegs and humidity

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

Ken, you might be on to something here. I'd never thought about the pegs being soft and that could be the case or maybe a combo of both the maple and the pegs? I don't know but soft pegs makes sense.

I want to fix it but I'm really concerned about next summer when the humidity goes up. If this instrument was played on a daily basis, I wouldn't worry about anything but this instrument might go a month without being touched and that concerns me because if I redo the pegs so they are snug now, what will happen in the summer? Has anyone heard of a pegbox splitting due to pegs being too tight?

Sorry for sounding overly concerned but I wish I had one of the new phones with a camera in it so I could have taken a picture. The shift was way, way too much - beyond normal (in my opinion).

James

Ken Pollard · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject:

I can't provide much beyond some superstition mixed with observation.

When we're set up for the National Old Time Fiddlers Contest, we see a lot of this. Folks come from Portland or Seattle (wet) to Weiser (not so wet) and their pegs slip. Won't hold nor stay in tune. When they come in to our on-site repair shop for a fix, I find that the pegs have slipped in so far that I often need to re-drill the string hole. I dope them up well (the pegs, not the customers), and tell them to keep an eye on the pegs after they get back home.

So, (1) I have no idea what shape their pegs were in before they came to Weiser, and (2) I don't know what happens after they get back home. I have to say, I haven't heard any reports of peg-boxes cracking from 'swelling' pegs or maple afterwards.

I have had pegs that were stuck firmly in place. When I can get them loose no other way, I will put the fiddle in the freezer for a short time. The pegs usually come loose after that. I assume it has more to do with the dry than the cold, but don't know. And this is on factory fiddles. I'm making no claims that this is a good idea for anything worth much money.

Fiddles are organic, and if someone expects that they can just pull it out of a case or closet after a month or more with no adjustments needed, then they will be often disappointed. I suppose if you really wanted to keep this customer happy in that regard, you could replace the pegs with Wittners or Perfection pegs.

I'd like to hear what other folks have seen and done on this humidity/wood shrinkage issue as well.

DonLeister · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject:

Were the violin and the pegs acclimated to your shop or did a dry violin get humid pegs fit into it? That is all I can guess, and then it would have to be an extreme case which is unlikely.

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

Hi Don,

Well, now that I think about it, I probably had the violin hanging for about 4 or 5 days before I got to it. Maybe that wasn't long enough? I've had a little chat with the current owner(s) about keeping the dampits moist and I gave them one of my super "high-tech" 35mm film cases with a sponge in it and asked them to keep that moist also even when it's not in use. I'm hoping that it will make a difference.

Ken - I'll have to try the freezer sometime! Never would have thought of that. I put a set of Wittners on another fiddle and that thing has been bullet proof. No matter what the weather, they stay in tune. That's a good suggestion. I'll have to see how things play out thought before I make the jump though.

ctviolin · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Pegs and humidity

L P Reedy · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject:

Did you burnish the peg holes before you fitted the pegs? If they are really sticking out 1/4 inch I would expect that some of the string holes are buried in the small-side peg holes. If the pegs are soft there should be shoulders worn on them. But a soft peg box, especially if the holes were not well burnished, can wear a lot.

Both maple and ebony can change quite a bit with moisture changes, as I confirmed recently with a new back. Had to "rehydrate" it to make it fit. If the fiddle is only played once a month or so, it won't matter whether you work on it or not--the pegs will still stick when the humidity goes back up.

I've never tried cold for freeing pegs because of time and space constraints, but wood does change some with temperature, especially ebony. I've always been able to loosen them with my modified automatic center punch. Takes a minute or two and never any damage so far.

DonLeister · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject:

I would think 4-5 days would be long enough to acclimate. Its gotta be soft pegs or not being seated well.

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

I think I'll have to agree with the soft pegs on this one. The pegs were seated well and the holes were burnished so I don't know what else I could have done in this situation. I really appreciate all the replies.

LP - do you have a picture of your modified center punch? I'm just curious what you did to it. Obviously I have the opposite problem but someday I know I'll have pegs that are frozen too!

L P Reedy · Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject:

No picture, but I just ground off the point to leave a flat end. I usually keep a plastic cap on it but don't remember where the cap came from. I think I installed a lighter spring, but this was a stout General brand punch. Harbor Freight has a smaller one but the shaft is really too small.

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

I might have to check into something like that LP. I better run before I get caught on here....Thanksgiving preparations and all...Have a nice Thanksgiving if you are in the States.

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject:

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

Hi CT - yes, they are ebony pegs. Are there different grades of ebony? Do you think the maple is the culprit? I'm going to be getting the violin on Monday and will let it set for about 4 or 5 days again and this time, I'm going to let it stay dried out and not put it in my violin room (because I'm assuming that the dampits and such are not being used again....) and I'm going to let the pegs sit by the heater and dry out as well. I'm actually going to measure the difference when all is said and done.

Well, I'm off to bed. Driving tomorrow in the snow so I need to rest up!