| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rabn
Junior Member
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: Restoration of 100 year old student violin |
 |
|
My first post and first restoration project.
The violin was at the bottom of a box of physics books I picked up for $5. The violin was completely in pieces including the belly and back. There is one rib missing, no bass bar, and the linings are missing.
I've made two violins and I'm working on three more.
My goal is to make it playable as a student violin without touching the varnish.
I've made the new missing rib, reglued the belly and back, and have regraduated the belly and back. Tap tones for the back is F natural and for the belly C natural. I know the back should be about one tone higher than the belly. So my question how do I bring the tone of the belly closer to the back or the back closer to the belly? Of course once I take off the wood it is too late.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Restoration of 100 year old student violin |
|
|
| rabn wrote: | Tap tones for the back is F natural and for the belly C natural. I know the back should be about one tone higher than the belly. So my question how do I bring the tone of the belly closer to the back or the back closer to the belly? Of course once I take off the wood it is too late.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Ray |
Why?
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rabn
Junior Member
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm still new to building and restoring violins, so what I am doing is checking my source with more experienced people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pmccombs
Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Utah
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rabn wrote: | | I'm still new to building and restoring violins, so what I am doing is checking my source with more experienced people. |
I'm new to the art of violin making too, but I have noticed that the general sentiment on this forum is that plate tuning is violin voodoo.  I'm not sure what the history of the practice is, but it's unlikely to have originated with the old Masters. I think it's an innovation that some here believe ought to be done away with. I think their argument is a good one, and I happen to agree with it in principle. I have never tuned a violin plate, and If I'm not mistaken, the advice you will get here is probably, "don't bother with it." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pmccombs wrote: | | rabn wrote: | | I'm still new to building and restoring violins, so what I am doing is checking my source with more experienced people. |
I'm new to the art of violin making too, but I have noticed that the general sentiment on this forum is that plate tuning is violin voodoo. I'm not sure what the history of the practice is, but it's unlikely to have originated with the old Masters. I think it's an innovation that some here believe ought to be done away with. I think their argument is a good one, and I happen to agree with it in principle. I have never tuned a violin plate, and If I'm not mistaken, the advice you will get here is probably, "don't bother with it." |
violin-voodoo? Naw!
Used in particular circumstances - with a particular background - it (the voodoo, that is) may not hurt anything, and may well be used to an advantage by some. (not me, but some - yes)
Well, the "why" of mine is questioning whether you're trying to restore or rebuild an old violin - or - trying to make it fit some modern scheme you have in mind - which it was probably not made to accomplish originally.
I'm just curious if there is anything there to indicate that a "code" of sorts was (using specific notes for tuning the plates or something of the sort) used on the original plates?
If not, then simply returning the plates (or thinning them, if you consider them left too thick - which, if it was a factory made STUDENT fiddle, then, it probably was left thick intentionally) to what you would consider an appropriate thickness for the violin, as it was MADE THEN, may well be your best option.
After all you're stuck with the original wood, and the original arching, the original design, and the varnish of 100 years ago, right? So how or why, are you going to accomplish a "modern tuning requirement" on these things, these plates?
Just curious.
Only my opinion. Nothing more.
Probably they (the original plates) weren't made to accomplish your own particular modern tailoring to some specific notes, or some *specific plate frequency relationship*...
Again, just suggesting.
Rebuilding - is often an interesting thing , but in my opinion, you CANNOT easily rebuild something 100 years old - to modern (arbitrary) building specs. I don't believe it works that way.
Trying to think of what (ideas - rules?) the maker was attempting to comply with originally, might be a more workable idea for a rebuild of an old violin.
I don't want to tell you what to do, as I'm not there, and I cannot see what you have in front of you.
On the other hand, if I were to "rebuild" an old violin, I think that the first thing I'd look at and want to work (to a specific degree) WITH, is what was already or originally there, and what IT pointed to.
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn.
Last edited by ctviolin on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:56 am; edited 7 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rabn wrote: |
I'm still new to building and restoring violins, so what I am doing is checking my source with more experienced people.
|
Completely understandable.
On the other hand it sounded like you knew what you wanted to accomplish already - just didn't know how to go about it.
Which - I must admit -I have no idea how you would make the plate(s) change its (their) basic nature in order to accommodate modern ideas either.
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chet Bishop
Super Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Craig;
I had the odd experience a few years ago of "re-building" a viola that had such incredibly thick plates that I was able to actually re-arch and re-graduate the plates in the process, and ended up with a pretty fair instrument. Doesn't always work out that way, of course, but in that particular case it did.
Obviously, it was simply not the same instrument when I was done...the only thing that remained original (and essentially unchanged) was the purfling.
The scroll had been fairly crudely machine-carved, so of course I re-carved it. The ribs were thick, so I thinned them. I think all I did to the linings was to scrape them smooth. New bass-bar of course...
The wood had seemed decent, so I figured I couldn't hurt it...I just considered it a "kit" and after scraping the original (very poor) varnish away, that is effectively what it became.
Chet
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rabn
Junior Member
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That is the case here. The thickness of the top and back plates were, on average, 4.5 mm thick. So I desided to regraduate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chet Bishop wrote: | Craig;
...the only thing that remained original (and essentially unchanged) was the purfling.
Chet |
Ha ha ha!
Priceless!
I think this thread needed this experience - it just goes to show you what CAN happen - how far it CAN go!
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chet Bishop
Super Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
These plates were 6-8mm thick or so, in the middle...I really had a lot to work with. Chinese VSO, as I recall, but ended up a pretty nice viola.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
antonio
Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Croatia
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rabn, install the bass bar first. This will rise the frequency a lot. Then carve the bass bar to its final shape. You have to measure the frequency very often (during carving), and when you reach the desired frequency, that will be the final shape of your bass bar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rabn
Junior Member
Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thank you for the advice everyone. Off to the worksbop now. Cheers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
