Violin Forum/Message Board

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

This kind of copy work just blows me away...

The one on the right is the copy...

http://www.jsphillipsviolins.com/J.S.Phillips_Violins/43_tops_together.html

And he's a local Guelph boy to boot!!! (well, originally!)

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: top level copy work

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: top level copy work

.
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject:

Nice.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

pmccombs · Member Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Utah

MANFIO · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject:

Very nice work indeed!!!
_________________
www.manfio.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7875988@N02/with/464604020/

jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

I was lucky to see that Filius when Jeff returned home victorious from the VSA with his first gold. I couldn't have imagined then how faithfully he's recreated it.
I study these photos; of the ff holes sitting on the arch especially; when I'm working at my Filius model. The man is incredible.
_________________
I could have carved a scroll by now.
http://jacobyfineviolins.squarespace.com/

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:25 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I had the same feeling--I was looking for little twitches of difference, and mostly didn't find any. He wasn't making A filius, he was making THAT filius!
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

R Mac · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject:

I always have mixed feelings about this sort of work.

On on hand I have to admire the technical achievement. The resemblance to the original is uncanny. On the other, I can't help but feel that such copies "muddy the water" for future scholars.

In a hundred years, there will be enough honest age in that instrument that it may be impossible to tell for lsure when it was made, or by whom. If it spends time in less-than-innocent hands, so much the more so.

Do other people feel this way?.. or am I out of line?

Mac

pmccombs · Member Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Utah

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject:

I agree from a bit different perspective. We don't call people who copy paintings and have no personal style fine artists--they're several layers lower than that. I, speaking for me, feel the same about violin making. Which is not to say that I don't appreciate the skill that copying without personality involves.

I'd rather see a flawed violin from an artistic maker than a flawless one from a copyist.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject:

Well...since a painting doesn't have to DO anything except look a certain way, I can see a fairly important difference. A luthier who is a skilled copyist has to not only have an incredibly discerning eye for visual detail, but must be able to recreate a sound and feel, to one degree or another.

Would you agree that the skill necessary to make that level of copy would probably eclipse the "creative" skills needed to develop one's own "voice" or style?

I probably have my own style, if one wants to call it that, but it is only a conglomeration of persistent errors that are inevitably becoming habitual.

A talented actor is not known for "being himself" but the opposite-- being someone else-- anyone else. So, it would seem that the copyist (if he/she is really that good) has taken the skill a step further...he/she can abandon his/her own peculiar tendencies, and do what is needed for this particular task. (Or maybe I am seeing it wrong.)

I guess that is why I see perfect realism in art as a mastery in itself, while the impressionistic mastery is simply a different field. No one can criticize Dali's work, saying, "Yes but I saw the original, and the clock was not shaped that way." Whereas anyone who is familiar with the scene in a landscape or a person in a portrait may say, "That is not a good representation of ___.", and be perfectly correct.

I don't think I will ever be a good enough luthier to do a "real" copy. The best I can do (or worst, if one disapproves of "copying") is to start with a particular instrument as my model, and work from there. The chance that it will ever be mistaken from the real thing is so minimal as to be considered nil.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

I prefer to let my making dictate the end result, and not to pull my hair out over straying from the original.
Mac, I think muddying the water is yes, an issue, but it can't be laid at Mr. Phillip's feet. He was paid to make a copy for the owner of the instrument, and being frightened that he did too good of a job is a testament to his awesome hands.
I think the issue is expression, too. But you can't look at Jeff's violins and pretend they are cold, even a bench copy at this level of detail. There is a need to feel the art in the person who made the violin, and anyone can see the lack when they hold a sterile instrument; one where all the style points are perfect, and it's boring because of it.
Jeff's copies are far to inspired to strike that note in me.
_________________
I could have carved a scroll by now.
http://jacobyfineviolins.squarespace.com/

jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Sadly, I've just noticed that the E strings are different!!!

E