Violin Forum/Message Board

[okawbow]

OK, starting about 1999, I built several violins, a couple violas, and a cello. I have been told the last few were fairly good instruments. In 2005, I took over a full time business making archery bows and arrows. About the same time; I started a Guarnerri style violin made from local red maple, willow, and persimon, from my woods in Southern Illinois, except the top, which is from some higher altitude Sitka I got in Alaska.

I am still trying to finish that fiddle. I have the body closed. It has a really nice tan from hanging in the sun for several years. I am working on the neck, carving the scroll, lately. I have the fingerboard made from persimon, but haven't started on the pegs or tailpiece yet.

I used to finish a violin in a couple months. I work on this one for a day or two, and then put it aside for months.

Anyone else having a similar problem?

[ctviolin]

[Mikes]

No record but I started 3 fiddles in May of 2009. I just strung up the first one of those on 12/30/12. the second I just started finishing the neck. and the third one needs about 10 more hours of bench work to be finish ready. Keeping track of hours I have 573 hours so far in those three which is way faster than the previous one completed in 2008 at 367 hours. Ok what's my excuss... life and the company I work for was devistaed by Tropical Storm Irene and I spent a year between cleaning up the old plant getting operational and designing/laying out/coordinatating the build-out of our new facilty. But I love fiddlemaking!

[Michael Darnton]

I don't know if this counts, but I have a restorer friend who had a habit of starting violins, then stopping and starting again when he decided he'd made a mistake. I haven't checked recently, but in the early 90s he was on #6, and I have yet to see something from him that's made it all the way through to the end.

The first thing I ever built was a guitar, in a guitar building course. I remember doing something totally insignificant (a surprise, not really a mistake) and the teacher told me to get used to it, and move on. He said if you don't like what you just did, don't do it again, but don't stop now.

At the moment, I can count three pivotal pieces of advice I've gotten in my life. That was one. Another was "Listen to everything they have to say, then do what you think is right", from a teacher in the 7th grade. And the third was . . . . oh I just forgot, while I was writing this. It will come to me eventually.

As long as I'm on this, the most valuable thing I learned in school was to read (after I got that, I could go on, on my own) and my most useful college class was statistics (I would NOT have believed that at the time--now I think it should be a required course!)

OK, I remember--the other is do what you need to do to get the picture. Nothing drastic there--he meant if you need to use clothespins on the back of the model to make something look like it fits (I tried to find a picture--you wouldn't believe what there is that you don't see in fashion photography), no one will know, but it applies in general to just getting things done, whether the solution is elegant or not.
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[Chet Bishop]

Maybe just a tad off-topic, but I am curious--why did statistics turn out to be so valuable? Just because it keeps you from getting deceived by statisticians (via politicians, or whatever)? Or is there some way you regularly use it? (My Dad used to teach probability and statistics...)
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[Lemuel]

I think this sort of “problem” happens in many other areas of life. Perhaps it’s not really a problem, but just a question of priorities
arising from legitimate immediate needs, or a conflict of interest where the rewards of one activity surpass another.

It’s human nature to choose work or activity that will return to us the highest “value” or “reward”. For each individual, this “reward” is
unique. For example, many seek financial rewards. For others, it’s friendships or being with people. Of course, other activities offer
rewards also, but the reward with the highest “value” usually wins our choices and our decisions.

In your case, I would ask what motivates you to run a full time business. Then I would ask what motivates you to build violins? What
“reward” are you seeking in both? Then see which one is more “expensive” to you. Hmmm….suppose someone offered you 100K for
finishing your violin, would this “reward” be expensive enough for you to close your business for a time?

(Although it’s natural to look for better rewards, it can become a problem if one has made a previous commitment (in any area of endeavor)
involving another person or more. Though enticing, a “better reward” may be offered in another area, it would be better in the long run for
one to follow through with his/her commitment).

[okawbow]

When I started making violins, I was not working full time, and I had little extra income. I had the idea that I could make a living doing repair work and selling a violin occaisionally. I did, and still do make a few dollars repairing and setting up violins and bows for the local fiddlers. I also sold a couple of my better violins for what I first thought was a good price. However; after counting the cost of materials and then realistically fiquring my time, I wasn't even making minimum wage.

I still enjoy working on violins and hope to finish this one this spring. I've even got out my other ongoing project-a bedfrod County style pennsylvania longrifle, and nearly completed the raised carving and shaping of the stock. I also hope to get it finished this year. I started it in 1987.

I don't think I'm really a procratinator. I just get side tracked on other interests. In the last few years, I rebuilt 2 sailboats, and last year, I basically built a 34' feet overall, gaff rigged schooner. http://www.flickr.com/photos/20524843@N03/8315869009/in/photostream/

I still want to build a double bass also. I guess i'll have to get all the other projects out of the way first.

[Michael Darnton]

Statistics class is probably where I got my habit of looking for ALL the possible things that could be causing something, not just the one I wanted to see at that moment.

To throw it back into violins, the bass bar is a good example. Everyone "knows" what a bassbar does. They "know" so well that they have never re-examined that knowledge. The violin world has developed strategies to manipulate the bassbar's effects, founded mostly on intuition, not experiments. Ask around and you'll find that mostly people think the same way, but very few of them have ever checked their information in anything other than the most shallow way.

Or soundposts. Why do different people report opposite results from post movements? Perhaps because they're manipulating some other thing than what they think they are, that they've never considered.

Statistics taught me not to build models of how things work on a foundation of insufficient data and other peoples' assumptions, but rather to consider all of the possibilities of what's going on, and then track them out by running experiments, some over very long periods of time with many instruments.
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my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[kjb]

well kind of funny for a first post, but I am finishing a viola that was started in the mid eighties, and a getting ready to string up a violin that was in the early 90's. Life took over, plus the fact that there was no internet to get all this great knowledge. now it seems like I have a hard time not wanting to work on them.
wow a lot of MN refugees here, hi ct!
kevin

[actonern]

"...my most useful college class was statistics..."


Yes!

Think of the relentless advertising claims, health warnings, ... it just goes on 'n on... that can only be evaluated by this tool.

And if I had to make a law, it would be to require reporters and media people to pass a proficiency test in statistics before they could publish anything. (I'm just kidding about that... we don't need more government!)

E

[ctviolin]

[ctviolin]

And, oh, by the way...

FINISH THAT POOR VIOLA!
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Look,
Listen,
Learn.

[kjb]

thanks , yes graduates!
I am working on the viola now and a new violin. I am going to take a class on plate tuning and jo's class on varnish, so I am getting these two ready for that. I realized that I have been wandering around in the dark on the actual working of the plates. And now the more I learn about it , it seems to get more complicated!
I hope to get some basic plate tuning ideas from the members here and possibly ff hole placement. I am glad that I found this site I have missed the graduates on " the site that will not be mentioned!" ha ha.

[mr_violin]

Hi Kevin,

I am interested in why you are thinking you need to " take a class on plate tuning ".

I am also interested in what information you get from others here on this forum on plate tuning.

As you have said; "I hope to get some basic plate tuning ideas from the members here "

I myself have decided that plate tuning is a waist of time.


I would like to know more on your other point "ff hole placement".

Anyone like to coment on that one?
Thanks, Larry Lewis

[kjb]

A long winded answer to your question!

It seems that there are a lot of different camps on violin making, and each camp seems confident or at leans towards certain ideas that they feel helps make a better sounding violin.

I am going to take a class in plate tuning so I at least have some understanding of some accepted principal of acoustics. I am sure that I will learn a lot, at the very least be around other makers and see what they are doing or what they believe. I will get to see how changing the mass will affect the sound of the plates. I will actually see how flexible a plate should be. I also have a bunch of violins that I picked up over the years that I can take apart tune the plates and see what happens. I believe I will get a great benefit from the class.

I have made 8 or so VSO's 20 years ago, with a maker that was 3 hours away. what I learned there was the basic carpentry skills, I went there because I wanted to play a better violin than I could afford. The viola I made turned out well and sounded good, the violins were so so.

I can see now that most of my plates were too thick, and if I want to I can take them apart and re-graduate them. I think this will give me valuable knowledge about how plates vibrate and sound.

There was no resource such as this, or the internet and I didn't even think about acoustics and vibrating plates or even how much difference the sound post position made.

Now I have a lot of info and I know all things can make a difference in the sound, but no real understanding, so this is the beginning of my journey.
I am in position now where I have time and tools to make something that has a chance at least to sound good. I don't just want to blindly go along as I have before relying on complete luck.
I would like at least 10% knowledge and 90% luck! ha ha

I will be taking the class in march with bob spear, and I will let you know how it works out for me. I am also taking jo robsons class on varnish in april, so at least if they don't sound good they may look good!!

It seems to me that there are a lot of different things that go into it and this is one part, from what i have read there is a lot of different parts that all come together with intuition over the years. As my father used to say " if it was easy anyone could do it"

In the end this is a hobby that I am very interested in and I also play, so a fair part of my day, violins are in my head. Guessing is ok for a while, but I am at the point where I want some real solid info to go by. I am not in a position to go to a school for an extended period, but a week here and there I can do. kevin