Violin Forum/Message Board

[ollieken]

Is there any way to make a Fiddle, Violin louder ?
I know Setup is big Strings, Bridge , sound post but some fiddles just
dont have the power I guess is what i mean. I heard one that drown
out the others in the groupe .Is it the player with a heavy hand & coarse bow hair ? I suppose It can be all of this . Maybe if we had the answer we would all be rich . Any ideas anyone
Thanks Ken

[kel]

Certainly not "heavy hand & coarse bow hair"

when i practise, everytime i don't want the violin to sound too loud,
i even use a mute to make it quieter

i don't have heavy hand and the bow is a cheap one

i think it should be the resonance power of the violin that causes a difference

please correct me if anyone knows the true definite answer
_________________
Newbie Maker Kelvin

[ollieken]

Mat Put Your thinking hat on & BTW not your holloween hat

[FiddleDoug]

I've had pretty good luck putting Helicore (medium) strings on instruments that seem kind of heavy. They are quite responsive and seem to "drive" reluctant instruments. Others may have had other experiences.
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Mat Roop]

Ken... I have been away form my computer for a few days... Boo Hoo!
Ken, try this site and check out the reference materials. http://violinbridges.co.uk
To read many of the articles you will first need to hurry over to the UNB school of engineering and get a degree, and then carry on with the fitting the bridge!
Try the article BRIDGING THE DIVIDE... it is easier to read... and FITTING A FINE BRIDGE....
My experience is that you get a louder (but not necessarily better) violin with a higher bridge, thinner bridge, thinner plates, thinner and higher soundbar. It all depends on what you have to start with and how much effort you are prepared to invest. Thinning in itself is not the solution ... it is the balance you need to find.
But start with being sure you have a bridge of at least 33-34 mm high and 4.1-4.2 mm thick at the feet and 2.1-2.2 thick at the top edge. If that raises the strings... well just wedge the fingerboard. Be sure also that the feet are well fitted to the top, and the arch joining the feet at the bottom should follow the arch of the violin top. I have regraduated many of the cheap violins for the fun of it and surprisingly they sound pretty good when done...Like the one I did for Larry. Regraduating really means rebuilding the entire instrument, usually even requiring a neck reset.
If you get a chance.. try the Rezx... http://www.violins.ca/accessories/wolftone_eliminators.html
I find it helpful in experimenting to understand what is going on with the instrument, and many times I have found that when you find the sweet spot, it brightens the instrument considerably.
Good luck!... Mat

[Dave Chandler]

I agree with Matt, by certain cutting on the bridge you can increase the volume, and a higher bridge does grant greater leverage in transmitting vibrations to the feet. With each violin I've made, I've gone through 2-3 bridges before I learn when to STOP trimming. Often I'll trim more and more and the volume grows better, then it seems I cross a line and suddenly the tone is gone. I've taped a small coin to the heart after overcarving and the sound comes back, so I know I've gone too far. Also, the thickness at the heart affects the bridges ability to filter sounds you don't want coming through. So back to a fresh blank and try some more.

Also some minor movement of the soundpost will greatly affect the tone. Closer to the Bridge a sweeter tone, toward the tailpiece more loudness, toward the bass bar greater volume. I'm only talking about movements of maybe 2mm at a time, and then leave a few days and play it in.

I just finished a violin, played it in the white a few days back. Moved post a little, checked bridge, was unsatisfied with the "tight" sounding A and E strings. Decided that since I had not yet varnished the instrument, what the heck, I popped the top and trimmed down the bass bar. Put back together, strung it up, and wow -- what a difference. Sweater, more open sounding and definitely greater response. I wouldn't have done this except this is my 8th violin, and almost all the preceding 7 had the same tightness in the A and E that all the bridgework and soundpost moving seemed not to cure. I was doing something consistently wrong. I was confident of my graduations, but NOT my bass bar carving -- so I figured I didn't want number 8 to be no better than the previous 7. Now I'm going back to two earlier instruments and will rework their bassbars.

Bridge and Soundpost first -- make sure they fit precisely and that you've maximized both before going back in to regraduate or trim the bass bar.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[Dave Chandler]

Oh, and I might add a "string lifter" is an outstanding investment if you're going to do a lot of bridge fitting. You can wear out a set of strings quick otherwise.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[chrisandcello]

[actonern]

"Closer to the Bridge a sweeter tone, toward the tailpiece more loudness, toward the bass bar greater volume."

Interesting... my own impression of a "general tendency" is that the closer to the bridge the more "hard" or edgy the sound... it kind of "spits" with intensity... it may be sweet, but with an increasingly unpleasant piercing quality...

...towards the tailpiece it becomes by grade increasingly soft, unfocused and then flabby...

Towards the bass bar I find more "free" and unfocused loudness, especially on the a and d strings... pull the bar closer to the f hole and it begins to "focus" the sound till it reaches a point where it rapidly starts choking it.

[Jack Rushing]

Dave, Good, informative reply. As for the string lifter, I just use an old
bridge that is a mm or so higher than the one I am working on. I slip it
under the strings on the finger board side, and gently ease it up to the
present bridge, and tilt it out. Replace it the same way. By the way, I
almost forgot, loosen the strings a bit before starting.

[Mat Roop]

Dave is right... a string lifter is really helpful and saves strings and varnish!... It is one of the luthier tools that is cheap... and a must have!
http://violins.ca/tools/tools_herdim.html
Cheers, Mat

[Dave Chandler]

The effect of moving the soundpost depends on where you're starting from, the degree of movement, and like anything -- move too far and it loses focus, gets edgy, flabby, etc. Minor variations make for great differences.

Using a larger bridge in lieu of a string lifter, and pressing it in ahead of the existing bridge can be hard on the finish if you're placing the top in first, then sliding the feet into place.

Another thing to watch of course, and I'm guilty of this after several times adjusting the bridge, I tend to let the bridge get off center, maybe a half milimeter or even more. Its as important as the placement of the soundpost.

By the way, does anyone scrape the finish away where the bridge feet are placed in order to get better association between bridge and belly? Probably overkill, but I was looking at a guagdanini and several other instruments on luthierlibrary.com and noticed that it appeared the finish had been intentionally removed exactly where the feet fit. I've heard this somewhere else, don't remember where.

And, while we're on the subject, I've had differing opinions on whether the brige is centered on the notch in the f hole, or do you line up the back (label side) of the bridge with the notch, and if you have your 90 degree angle on this back side then the maximum tension is now directly over the stop, and not ahead of it.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[Mat Roop]