| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mikebee
Junior Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: Preparation for varnishing |
 |
|
I know that this is a thorny subject and that there are any number of differing views held on the subject, but as something of a newcomer can I ask what the Forum experts and professionals do to seal and prepare their instruments before varnishing?
I believe there are some weird and wonderful (and expensive!) grounding materials advertised for this purpose. Is there anything that is particularly liked and recommended by present day makers? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Preparation for varnishing |
|
|
| mikebee wrote: | I know that this is a thorny subject and that there are any number of differing views held on the subject, but as something of a newcomer can I ask what the Forum experts and professionals do to seal and prepare their instruments before varnishing?
I believe there are some weird and wonderful (and expensive!) grounding materials advertised for this purpose. Is there anything that is particularly liked and recommended by present day makers? |
Well, I'll say what I use for my fiddles, is a straight forward and simple Garnet shellac to seal the wood before varnishing with oil varnish. I have decided that anything I can use today has to be simple and available and historically possible or perhaps plausable.
I've tried many things, that all also work fine, but the availability and simplicity of shellac have sold me on the idea. Used properly, it is just as workable as anything I've ever tried for that purpose (as a base coat). I'm afraid to say what kind of oil varnish I use, as I don't want you, as a relative newcomer, well, I don't want you to run away laughing... (or perhaps, screaming hysterically.)
But I believe that you will find, as you immerse yourself in the violin making world as it exists today, that as of right now you can run away from looking too far afield for a "proper" or "appropriate" historical varnish - because in reality there is none.
No one knows for sure what was used historically, and all of the various chemical formulas using exceedingly more difficult methods and ingredients, well, all I can say is that a simplicity has captivated me, and methodology quickly and permanently has me immersed in how to apply what I decide to use, rather than what exotic formula for the varnishing process I can adopt...
And so it goes, and so I can make violins, and varnish them today - right now.
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn.
Last edited by ctviolin on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Preparation for varnishing |
|
|
| ctviolin wrote: |
And so it goes and so I can make violins, and varnish them today - right now. |
I probably should have said, "how EASILY and SIMPLY I can make violins, and varnish them today". Which is perhaps a bad thing to makers who believe in some sort of form of mystical or involved varnish preparation...
Anyone who cares to critique my finishing (who knows or has seen it) is welcome to do so. Perhaps I'll put up some photos here of various finishing jobs I have done.
I truly welcome any varnish information that anyone cares to submit, as I am continually trying anything I would consider workable or "proper", out.
Thanks, and I would hope that this thread turns out to be as busy and controversial (or opinionated) as some of the other threads that are impressively active here right now, are.
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
L P Reedy
Super Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 276
Location: Brevard, NC
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some of the most recent research seems to show that Strad's ground was simply a coat of linseed oil. That's what I've been using lately with as good results as anything else I've tried. I don't recommend soaking the wood, a light coat well dried is sufficient.
I've tried shellac but am not satisfied with the look. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| L P Reedy wrote: | Some of the most recent research seems to show that Strad's ground was simply a coat of linseed oil. That's what I've been using lately with as good results as anything else I've tried. I don't recommend soaking the wood, a light coat well dried is sufficient.
I've tried shellac but am not satisfied with the look. |
Very interesting.
I've thought about trying linseed oil for that purpose, since it's an ingredient in the varnish itself, and would work "along with" the varnish in a manner of speaking. But I never have tried it.
On the other hand, the shellac is so vastly different of an approach, I've sort of gotten out of the notion of trying to use anything else, just lazy I guess...
L P Reedy,
If you're willing to spill, I have some questions.
There are more than one type of linseed oil available, and I'd like to experiment with this idea, what type of product do you use and how difficult is it to get to dry?
It must be important to use the right product, did you experiment around until you found it, or were you told by someone? I have read about this idea before, but do not remember exactly where.
Light coat; like, a simple coat put on with a slightly wet (with oil) cloth wiped on bare wood? Or do you use a brush.
Just curious.
Thanks for the idea, this will be interesting.
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
L P Reedy
Super Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 276
Location: Brevard, NC
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a jug of Parks raw linseed oil that is at least 30 years old. I've been using out of it for 23 years and probably still have all I will ever need. It dries just fine in my light box. It is the only linseed oil I've ever used.
All I know is that cold-pressed raw oil (artist grade) is usually recommended. Avoid the edible stuff, it often won't dry. Hardware store "boiled" oil may work OK for this but it isn't recommended for varnish making.
I think I've applied it both with a brush and a rag. I apply somewhat liberally (how's that for a detailed measurement?), then quickly wipe off the excess so that there is virtually none left on the surface. It should penetrate only a little. Try it on some test pieces to get a feel for it. If you soak the wood it will take forever to dry and may never give good sound.
On the other hand, a ground coat of clear varnish may be just as good. So many possibilities to try and to obsess about.
Lyle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| L P Reedy wrote: | I have a jug of Parks raw linseed oil that is at least 30 years old. I've been using out of it for 23 years and probably still have all I will ever need. It dries just fine in my light box. It is the only linseed oil I've ever used.
All I know is that cold-pressed raw oil (artist grade) is usually recommended. Avoid the edible stuff, it often won't dry. Hardware store "boiled" oil may work OK for this but it isn't recommended for varnish making.
I think I've applied it both with a brush and a rag. I apply somewhat liberally (how's that for a detailed measurement?), then quickly wipe off the excess so that there is virtually none left on the surface. It should penetrate only a little. Try it on some test pieces to get a feel for it. If you soak the wood it will take forever to dry and may never give good sound.
On the other hand, a ground coat of clear varnish may be just as good. So many possibilities to try and to obsess about.
Lyle |
Thanks Lyle
(by the way, did I ever mention that Lyle is my younger brothers name? -
which I think is unusual - I've never met another Lyle in person.)
I'll get myself a bottle of cold pressed raw linseed oil, I believe that the Hobby Lobby here in Rosburg (snicker) has Artists grade, in one of those small art supply bottles (Windsor Newton?) which will provide more than enough for me to see if it is something that I like.
This ought to be interesting. I will post the results as soon as I try this out.
Thanks again
ct
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| L P Reedy wrote: |
On the other hand, a ground coat of clear varnish may be just as good. So many possibilities to try and to obsess about.
Lyle |
Isn't that the (sort of sad) truth...?
_________________
Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Masters
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| L P Reedy wrote: | Some of the most recent research seems to show that Strad's ground was simply a coat of linseed oil. That's what I've been using lately with as good results as anything else I've tried. I don't recommend soaking the wood, a light coat well dried is sufficient.
I've tried shellac but am not satisfied with the look. |
Can one tell the difference between Tung and linseed in a wood surface? Tung would work better in several respects. The China-wood oil possibility is not completely out of line considering trade in the Renaissance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
L P Reedy
Super Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 276
Location: Brevard, NC
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The conclusion was based upon chemical analysis, not appearance. Tung oil might theoretically be better, but linseed works fine. I've used both. Do you have documentation that says tung oil was available to Stradivari (or his varnish supplier)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
okawbow
Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Southern Illinois
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I dissolve raw bee propolis in acetone, and use the resulting wash to coat both the inside of the body, and on the outside as part of the ground coat. The propolis leaves a nice yellow color that is supposed to be an excellent wood preservative. It also makes the violin smell wonderful when you play it. I apply a coat of fresh ruby shellac over the propolis, before the oil varnish.
Ruby shellac ground back by okawbow, on Flickr |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pmccombs
Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Utah
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Preparation for varnishing |
|
|
| ctviolin wrote: |
I truly welcome any varnish information that anyone cares to submit, as I am continually trying anything I would consider workable or "proper", out.
|
I sometimes just cover it with a thin layer of hide glue to seal it. Generally I'll apply something like gamboge or a dye directly to the maple (but not the spruce) before sealing it. That helps to pop the grain a little. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Masters
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| L P Reedy wrote: | | The conclusion was based upon chemical analysis, not appearance. Tung oil might theoretically be better, but linseed works fine. I've used both. Do you have documentation that says tung oil was available to Stradivari (or his varnish supplier)? |
No, I have no documentation at all. If the residue can be distinguished from that of linseed oil, I guess I will have to accept what is seen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marquita
Junior Member
Joined: 29 Feb 2024
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: Sat May 30, 2026 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John Masters wrote: | | L P Reedy wrote: | | The conclusion was based upon chemical analysis, not appearance. Tung oil scarf ring might theoretically be better, but linseed works fine. I've used both. Do you have documentation that says tung oil was available to Stradivari (or his varnish supplier)? |
No, I have no documentation at all. If the residue can be distinguished from that of linseed oil, I guess I will have to accept what is seen. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
