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bulerias1981 Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: Purfling |
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Hi all. Tonight I just tried installing purfling by hand, and I can say, so far its not looking good.
My question is.. does anyone does this by hand? Or do you use a jig and a router of some sort? _________________ "I only write the notes as written, it is god that creates the music." J.S. Bach |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1286 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have done it by hand, and it came out fine, but when I did it I already had a lot of years at the bench, and was fully skilled. But I do not do it by hand now--my time is worth more than that and with my machine it takes 10 minutes instead of eight hours to cut the groove. Here's what I use:
http://darntonviolins.com/purfling-machine/
If you scan down the page you'll see enough views to make your own. I used an angle-iron shaped piece of wood (a 2x2" bar with a 1x1" piece ripped out of it to leave an "L" shape) and a 5/8" round bar of brass. |
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actonern Super Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Michael:
I see you have an "up-spiral" bit on the rig... do you have any experience with a "down-spiral" bit? In theory they may produce less edge fuzzing. |
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Andres Sender Super Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 275 Location: N. CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Fuzz doesn't matter unless you want to purfle after sinking the channel.
Be sure and practice a lot on scrap if you build one of these. ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1286 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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The fuzz sands off quickly with a folded piece of 150-grit sandpaper. I haven't had much luck with carbide bits, which are the only down-spiral bits I'm aware of. For me, they break much too easily in this situation. |
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Dave Chandler Super Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 691 Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: Purfling |
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I've purfled four violins by hand now, and they look pretty good. But, as said, easily can spend 8 hours and more cutting grooves by hand and its hard on the fingers. I'm ready for an alternative. I would think that if you have enough concentration, control, and coordination for purfling by hand, you can probably successfully purfle using an electric device. _________________ Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill
"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo |
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Leif Luscombe Site Admin
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 126 Location: Mount Elgin, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I have always done it completely by hand ... I think it is very important for a maker to be able to perform this, manually, to perfection. Once this has been accomplished, then I say go the mechanized route if it makes sense to you. _________________ Leif Luscombe
Violin Maker and Dealer
The Violin Forum Moderator |
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jessupe goldastini Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 169 Location: sana' rafaela'
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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i personaly love doing it by hand and have become very fast at it...
i like to use a standard purfling knife tool to lightly score the initial lines in, then i use a utility knife with a depth mark to plunge the depth of the cut, this takes extreme hand grip stregnth to do quickly and acuratley...
after that a well shaped pick to pop out the channel, shape and sharpness are key....
after its scooped out i turn the pick upside down and scrape the channel, if you have areas blow out, use white glue to control any edges that lift out...
i can do 2 plates with a seem purfling on both sides in two hours or so....
i knew all that vct tile i laid when i was a kid would come in handy... |
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jethro Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2007 Posts: 178
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: purfling by hand .... |
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I did the last one by hand. I made a cutting tool to cut the groove.
Started with a pack of mini razor knife blades from hardware. Made a
handle for them to mount in. The blades have through holes. I mounted
them on the end of the handle with brass shimstock spacers between
and a #4 bolt to squeeze them together. Also welded a little "foot" that
overhangs the edge of the plate to work as a guide. I would make about
1/2 mm cut each pass- and then run a very small chisel through and pop out the flakes. The tool worked great except for one small flaw. The
razor knife blades are sharpened on both sides. So as your cut goes down
gradualy deeper the small slope on the sides of the blades causes a very
slight tapering (narrowing) as the groove gets deeper. Not a searoius
problem if you are aware of it and tool out the bottom of the groove as needed. On the good side-- I can change blades regularly and stay WAY
sharp all the time. The blades are like 2$ for 5 pack !
I will try Michaels VERY SIMPLE dremel tool attachment next time !
I tried complicated and it sucked !
tim |
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MANFIO Super Member
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 458 Location: Sao Paulo
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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What about the purfling description on these instruments?
Violin 1: the purfling, disrupted by the deep figure, is delightfully crinky... Ocacasional wild knife cuts stray outside the purfling slot and the varnish has sunk into the gaps in the purfling, which is a little loose in the channel. In most of the corners, the innermost point within the mitre has chipped away during the excavation of the channel.
Violin 2: The purfling is haphazard, the corner mitres quickly made, and knive strokes still clearly visible from the initial marking of the channel. Within the channel, the purfling itself is frequently buckled, althouhg the black and white strips remain glued together... ... some effort was made to create an extended mitre in the corners, in the style of Stradivari, but all the corners vary considerably in the lenght and direction of the point. Again, the purfling channel follows the uneven knive cut of the edge, and is far from smooth in it's course.
Violin 3: The purfling in this violin is certainly the coarsest encountered so far. The channel varies considerably in width, and the purflings are by turn constricted or free to wander from side do side within it. The purfling in the lower bouts meets in the usual sloping scarf joint on the centre seam, but the downward knive stroke wich formed it has scarred deeply into the back. In the corners, the purfling naturally takes the shortest route between two points of the oversized channel and runs in straight lines, forming the short mitres virtually as a right angle.
Violin 4 - The purfling is rather narrow, squeezed into a tightly cut slot with barely enough room for the black strips. Nevertheless, the slot meanders slightly around the edge, and the purfling is generally distorted, the tight curves in the corners are formed by a series of cracks, the sloping joint to the left of pin in the lower bout is hopelessly awry, and the knife cut still scars the surface of the back.
Violin 5 - Here and there gaps have been filled with slips of maple, and the purfling corners do not always meet cleanly, but the impression is of unusal precision.
Violin 6 - The purfling is not inlaid smoothly, but follows the knife-cut facets of the edge closely. It fits snugly into its channel, with no sign of any filler, although there are several unconcealed gaps where the purflings do not quite meet in the corner mitres.
Violin 7 - The purfling is somewhat forced into a narrow channel and in some places the black strip disappears entirely.
Violin 8 - The purfling stands a little proud of its channel and is unusually wide. Even so, the slot has generally been cut wider than the pufling, and much filler has been used around the bouts.
Violin 9 - The pufling is extremely shaky. Huge deflections appear in the lower bouts of the back, and the two strands of pufling have been forced too tightly into a butt join sligtly to the left of the pin, causing dramatic buckling. The purfling itself seems to have been cut from two different directions at this poind and does not quite meet, wich must have added considerably to the difficulty of inserting and joining the purfling. The resulting gaps are pugged with filler paste. The black strips have generally faded to grey, and disappear entirely at various points in the middle and upper bouts of the back on the bass side.
Violin 10 - The slot for the purfling is frantically cut. The knife slashed roughly along its intended route, leaving marks wich career over the finished edge. The mitres are only approximately formed; the large gaps were sometimes quickly filled with paste or simply left open. The purfling pursues a hesitant course, stopping short of the end of the corner, and meandering across the wide channel. The black stris are unevenly stained. They are quite brown under the varnish and grey were exposed, but in other paces apper to have aborbed some of the filler, and remain a very deep black. _________________ www.manfio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7875988@N02/with/464604020/ |
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jessupe goldastini Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 169 Location: sana' rafaela'
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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fu man,....are there pictures to go with these descripions? |
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jessupe goldastini Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 169 Location: sana' rafaela'
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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wow... ....Guarneri String Quartet
your stuff gets to travel alot.... |
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MANFIO Super Member
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 458 Location: Sao Paulo
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Barry Dudley Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 64 Location: Monroe, GA
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Del Gesu can get away with that but I don't think I can??? |
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