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Fgayford
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
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Location: cambridge
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 Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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I was wondering what you guys think of the new Carbon Fiber instruments making some head way in the market place. notably Louis and Clark and Mezza Forte ?
Have any of you actually played a Carbon Fiber instruement?
Thanks
Fred |
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Michael Darnton
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JPherson
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Location: IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Last i saw and admittedly that was years ago. The L&C were made with no graduations just a solid thickness. The ones i saw were loud but not full. |
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SooT
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Posts: 74
Location: Devon, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| My daughter tried a L & C cello, it didn't have the colour tones of a wooden cello. She didn't like it. Maybe OK for travelling, but you can't beat a traditionally made instrument or bow. |
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Fgayford
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Fgayford wrote: | I was wondering what you guys think of the new Carbon Fiber instruments making some head way in the market place. notably Louis and Clark and Mezza Forte ?
Have any of you actually played a Carbon Fiber instruement?
Thanks
Fred |
I agree the warmth is not as good as wood. Yet on the net many people really like the Carbon sound. I wonder how the warmyh could be introducted into the construction of a carbon instrument?
Fred |
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ctviolin
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Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Fgayford wrote: |
I wonder how the warmyh could be introducted into the construction of a carbon instrument?
Fred
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Interesting.
I would suggest... just about any amount of warmth could be introduced into a carbon instrument - by someone who is willing to put the effort into constructing it...
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Fgayford wrote: | ...I wonder how the warmyh could be introducted into the construction of a carbon instrument?
Fred |
Ha ha easy... replace the carbon fiber with tonewood!
Seriously though... If you are trying to replicate the sound of a wood instrument, why change the material? I realize carbon fiber might have its advantages for mass production, but then they will all be the same with no color or character.
... sort of like if all men were made exactly alike, they would all be after my bride!
Cheers!... Mat |
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Michael Darnton
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ctviolin
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Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Mat Roop wrote: |
Seriously though... If you are trying to replicate the sound of a wood instrument, why change the material? I realize carbon fiber might have its advantages for mass production, but then they will all be the same with no color or character.
Cheers!... Mat
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Interestingly enough, this wasn't brought under consideration by the posters question.
Replicating the sound of wood, is entirely another question, is it not?
Claiming that all carbon fiber products will all be the same, and that it is a given that they will never have color or character is another..., um..., well, at this point we could simply call it an assumption, with no factual support given.
Tradition is one thing - New product design is entirely another thing.
For economy, for affordable mass production, or for whatever reason chosen.
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| ctviolin wrote: | | . . .Claiming that all carbon fiber products will all be the same, and that it is a given that they will never have color or character is another..., um..., well, at this point we could simply call it an assumption, with no factual support given. |
Actually, the history of making wooden string instruments of other materials has quite an ample history: aluminum and steel violin family instruments, the mentioned graphite ones, Macaferri plastic violins, the entire Ovation guitar line, and experiments by makers. The real question is, how many times do you give ferrets steroids before you realize they won't turn into poodles? Some people would have you think you have to try ALL ferrets first to know it won't happen.
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ctviolin
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Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Michael Darnton wrote: | | The real question is, how many times do you give ferrets steroids before you realize they won't turn into poodles? Some people would have you think you have to try ALL ferrets first to know it won't happen. |
Hmmm.
Interesting "parallel".
Ferrets equal poodles when given steroids, yeah, Ok.
If this story shows that cf violins cannot possibly be made to sound warmer - which is exactly the thing stated, well, it simply doesn't.
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Michael Darnton
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| ctviolin wrote: | | Mat Roop wrote: |
Seriously though... If you are trying to replicate the sound of a wood instrument, why change the material? I realize carbon fiber might have its advantages for mass production, but then they will all be the same with no color or character.
Cheers!... Mat
|
Interestingly enough, this wasn't brought under consideration by the posters question.
Replicating the sound of wood, is entirely another question, is it not?
Claiming that all carbon fiber products will all be the same, and that it is a given that they will never have color or character is another..., um..., well, at this point we could simply call it an assumption, with no factual support given.
Tradition is one thing - New product design is entirely another thing.
For economy, for affordable mass production, or for whatever reason chosen. |
I assumed that "adding warmth" was leading towards the traditional hand crafted tone of a classic violin, perhaps I assumed too much?
Replicating the sound of wood, is indeed entirely another question, but is it not the objective of people trying different materials to create an instrument that equals a classic violin? If they were to succeed, the advertising line would surely be "As good as a Strad"? Otherwise, why not call the new creation by a different name altogether? And then the quality of the creation would stand on its own.... sort of like we call cheap factory instruments VSO's not violins.
You are absolutely right about the no factual support, just my 2 cents worth of opinion... and in Canada we no longer have real "cents" so even that is outdated!
Cheers!... Mat
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Fgayford
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Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 13
Location: cambridge
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Carbon Fiber Violins |
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| Mat Roop wrote: | | Fgayford wrote: | ...I wonder how the warmyh could be introducted into the construction of a carbon instrument?
Fred |
Ha ha easy... replace the carbon fiber with tonewood!
Seriously though... If you are trying to replicate the sound of a wood instrument, why change the material? I realize carbon fiber might have its advantages for mass production, but then they will all be the same with no color or character.
... sort of like if all men were made exactly alike, they would all be after my bride!
Cheers!... Mat |
Carbon has a number of advantages over wood really. More powerful voice, not affected by temperature or humidity. They are much stronger and cannot warp or twist. But! even though they can sound pretty good, they lack the warmth that wood has, therefore they do not sound great in my opinion. A carbon fiber violin has to be hand made and takes a lot of time to produce all though it takes alot less time than a wooden instrument. I just thought someone might have a clever suggestion on what might add warmth to the carbon instruments.
Thanks
Fred |
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Fred, The question in my mind has become... Why is a classic violin "warm" ?? I am not scientific enough to answer that but here are a couple of thoughts....
What if you laminate a thinner layer of carbon fiber with spruce and maple respectively... both inside and out, front and back? that way the CF will be the core giving the strength and stability and the wood covering may give the warmth.
You could also try placing pieces of rubber foam inside the instrument. I know that the foam type of hearing protectors work by allowing the low frequency sounds to travel thru but the more dangerous high frequency sounds are filtered. Perhaps warm = less high frequency?? It is an easy enough and non invasive experiment that will not be the solution , but it may lead you somewhere.
Maybe these have been tried before?
Cheers, Mat |
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