Violin Forum/Message Board

[dan bombliss]

Hey there all,

I am brand new, and fresh to this forum. A bit about me is I'm a guitar luthier; both building and repair, and I had started a couple stringed instrument projects a while back. With that said, one of which is a Gofriller cello. I was looking at picking up a book, as I'm considering putting all guitar projects on hold for potentially a few year hiatus and jumping into exclusively cello construction in my spare time.

I was curious what the overall review is on the Henry Strobel Cello construction book on the violins.ca website. I need something that will have the bassbar location information, and some of the more crucial specs in the building process. I'm already done with my final graduations, and the plates are about good to go. The 2 big processes I would like a book reference for is the bassbar information, and neck set information. I do not know the geometry for neck angle, ect for cellos.

So the rib structure is done, and the linings are all in (I have a break away mold) and my plates are graduated. The last step I need before gluing together the body is bassbar info. I've started my scroll, and really I just need some more gouges to really finish it up, and continue carving away on that. That part I'm not so concerned with. But once the shell is done, and I wrap the scroll up, I do need the neckset information.

With all that said now, I'm confident in my ability to setup/repair/ect. I'm plenty familiar with hide glue and mixing it and what not, but I just need specs. I need to know the ideal setup specs, bridge heights, neck angles, basically what I need to know to know what it's suppose to look like. If there is a holy grail of setup books, I'd like to have it.

Thanks alot for all of your time, and I hope to get to learn and talk with alot of you.

-Dan

[Cliff Green]

Hi Dan,

I've built 5 cellos. The first two were based on Strobel's plans and the rest from the Davidof Strad poster.
As you know there's not a lot of printed info on Cellos. Strobel's book is useful but you have to have his book on violin building. Rather than repeating steps in his cello book he refers back to the violin book, annoying. I would not recommend using his mould.
Strobel's book on Useful Measurements is very good and highly recommended.
For the bass bar positioning establish the position of the bass bridge foot (beneath the outer ankle not the toe) and mark that as the outer line of the bass bar then the bass bar should be parallel to a line tangent to the upper and lower bout edges. The bar should now be a couple of mm inside the upper eye of the bass F hole. For a Strad B form cello the bar is 10-11 mm thick, 580mm long. Michael Darnton has suggested the following for shaping the bar; divide the length of the bar into eight equal segments. The height of the bass bar at these points including the thickness of the top are 9mm (ends), 15mm, 21mm, 27mm, 29mm (center), 27mm, 21mm, 15mm, 9mm. The bar will be 80mm from the top and bottom edges of the top.
For the neck the finger board projection is 81mm at the bridge, overstand at upper edge 19-21 mm, nut to top edge 280mm and edge to bridge center 400mm, nut to heel 295mm. On my neck template the board surface to heel angle is 82 degrees.
PS For whatever reason I have an extra copy of Strobel's Cello making book. If you can use it I'll send it to you

Cliff

[dan bombliss]

Hey Cliff,

Thanks for posting a reply. That information you posted is invaluable, as those are all things I can't come up with myself. I'll look into the measurement book, and as far as the Cello book goes, I could use that, and this post was essentially asking which book would be the right book to purchase for cello making. You have indicated that book may not be the one, but if you have an extra, I would love to read one.

Thanks,
Dan

[Chet Bishop]

Well...I don't know whether it will help, really, but:

I have only built two celli, both from the Davidov plans ("The Strad" poster), but using Mr. Strobel's book(s) for additional information...for instance, the poster does NOT have enough information to get a good neck template-- but Henry's book does-- so the neck heel and handle shapes and dimensions came from Strobel, while the scroll proper and the rest of the instrument came from the Strad poster.

I don't know why Mr. Strobel chose to key the cello (and viola) books to the violin book, but he did. My first instrument was a viola, and yes, it was a little irritating, after having bought the viola book to realize I needed the violin book, or I couldn't use the viola book...but I bought the books and used them, and have found his books (all of them) to be very helpful.

I coached a (previously completely devoid of woodworking experience) friend through his first violin and then his first cello, using only the Strobel books as a textbook, and my filling in the "gaps", as he progressed.

That first violin is now being played by a first violinist in the Hillsboro Symphony Orchestra (small, but still...), and the friend himself is playing that cello in that same orchestra. The Strobel design itself is quite workable, and produces a very nice cello.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[dan bombliss]

Well, I have a neck template for a Stradivarius I had copied from a chap a while back. It has the holes for the scroll in it, and it's a pretty fair template all and all. I don't know how much information I really need to be able to build, and finish my build, but I'm just searching for a good abundance so I can cross reference anything I already know.

If there are any good sources for spec print outs for Strads or other models as well, those are resources I'm not familiar with, and would love to get my hands on something like that. I have known of people who had print offs of all the graduations, block heights, rib thicknesses, neck length, nut width, ect...

I'm confident I can finish my cello with out many issues, but I'd rather avoid the beginner mistakes with not having specs correct due solely to the fact that I do not know where to find this info. I'd like to read through a handful of books prior to finishing this instrument, because after putting all the time into the thorough graduations, and what not, I'd hate to ruin it with a bad neck set, set, or bassbar position.

Any and all information I can get will help me be a bit more educated on my choices of build process. And as you had mentioned, I've noticed there isn't alot out there that is Cello based, which is a shame. I myself am not too interested in building violins, mostly because I can't play them, and when I try it sounds terrible

-Dan

[actonern]

This month's STRAD magazine (June issue) will feature a full fold-out poster of a Vuillaume cello... likely built on Strad dimensions?

http://www.thestrad.com/magazine/

[Cliff Green]

Dan,

PM me with an address and I'll send you the Strobel Cello book. It will make more sense if you have the violin book as well but there's enough material to answer the questions you've asked so far in the cello book alone.
The only other printed resource I know of is a section in Sacconi's Secrets of Stradivari. but that book is expensive. Strobel's Useful Measurements book also has set up dimensions for violins, violas and cellos including fractionals.

Really, there's not much difference (except for set up), between violin and cello construction. When I started this madness, I wanted a better cello. I built a couple of violins first since they're a lot cheaper to build and take a lot less work/time. They're also easier to get rid of.

I agree with Chet's assessment that Strobel's cello plans will give you a decent cello but you're beyond that phase with this instrument

Cliff

[Cliff Green]

Dan,

PM me with an address and I'll send you the Strobel Cello book. It will make more sense if you have the violin book as well but there's enough material to answer the questions you've asked so far in the cello book alone.
The only other printed resource I know of is a section in Sacconi's Secrets of Stradivari. but that book is expensive. Strobel's Useful Measurements book also has set up dimensions for violins, violas and cellos including fractionals.

Really, there's not much difference (except for set up), between violin and cello construction. When I started this madness, I wanted a better cello. I built a couple of violins first since they're a lot cheaper to build and take a lot less work/time. They're also easier to get rid of.

I agree with Chet's assessment that Strobel's cello plans will give you a decent cello but you're beyond that phase with this instrument

Cliff

[dan bombliss]

Hey,

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate the prompt input. It's going to be some time before I can get to wrapping up this Gofriller project, as I've got alot of other things that need to be wrapped up first, which I suppose works out great that I have time to do the research needed to get it done well.

I'd like to get well studied so my next Cello is a bit more planned out and to spec. Alot of this Gofriller was done on a whim. I got the mold from a buddy of mine that had gone to the school of violin making in Chicago, so I had the mold and matching template. I copied my neck template from a builder in the minneapolis area, which I believe is a Strad (I've forgotten), and the graduations are based off of Strad. The same builder had given me a print out of the graduations. Oh, I copied the graduation templates for a Strad, so all and all it's a cross between Gofriller body and strad specs.

I've thought about doing more with violins to get the chops with cello, but honestly I'd rather use alternative, cheaper (unorthodox) woods, and still build a cello and get the practice down on the same build, make adjustments accordingly, and honestly just gather tools for one instrument is the biggest reason.

I'm glad, and thankful that some of you guys that have finished a cello are coming out of the woodwork a bit. I'll get a better feel of who I can hassle for info .

Thanks alot,
Dan

[dan bombliss]

Oh, also, do you guys know if/where you can buy individual copies of The Strad? I'd be interested in purchasing that issue with the cello poster, but not prepared to take on a subscription right now for a single issue.

-Dan

[actonern]

You have 2 ways of getting Strad posters...

1. with a subscription (they stopped including them in newsstand issues)
2. from their website as a special order. They cost about 30 USD each.