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kjb
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 Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: bridge height and angle |
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| When setting up do you pay more attention to bridge height or angle of the strings over the bridge? |
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Mikes
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| If things are done correctly on a new build the string angle will be fine. I usually focus on the action (height of the strings above the board) by adjusting the nut and bridge height. |
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Michael Darnton
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kjb
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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ha ha, ok, they are both important.
what I have heard, is around 26 mm
around 158 degrees
if you had to fudge one to get the other is there one that is more important. I have had some people tell me they go by height more and others say that they go by angle. So I am guessing this is one more of those depends on who is doing it answers. . |
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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26mm? Bridge height should be around 32mm with a normal violin, but that can vary according to the neck set, the arch height, and some other things. These all need to be taken into consideration, none ignored. I don't always use the same numbers, but I always put the same amount of thought into the numbers I end up using, setting things right if necessary, making the results intentional, not what I was handed to work with.
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violinarius
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kjb wrote: | ha ha, ok, they are both important.
what I have heard, is around 26 mm
around 158 degrees
if you had to fudge one to get the other is there one that is more important. I have had some people tell me they go by height more and others say that they go by angle. So I am guessing this is one more of those depends on who is doing it answers. . |
I think you mean that the 'Neck Projection' at the bridge position is 26 mm, not the bridge height, since bridge height ends up around 32 - 33 mm.
Most sources give 27 mm for neck projection, and the reason this is so is because it is connected to a whole bunch of other numbers that if followed give you a 158 degree string angle over the bridge.
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/630614522/luthier-tools-violin-neck-prolongation-measuring-tool.jpg
So .....yes. |
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kjb
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| yes thanks for the correction and the information. |
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Michael Darnton
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| violinarius wrote: | | Most sources give 27 mm for neck projection, and the reason this is so is because it is connected to a whole bunch of other numbers that if followed give you a 158 degree string angle over the bridge. |
The main problem being that if you follow those numbers for a modern violin, or a violin that doesn't have a 15mm top arch, you usually end up with something around 157 or even 156. The standards work for old ones, which often have as much as a 2mm slump along the length of the body (and I think they were probably devised by restorers working in shops who were trying to maximize old violins, not thinking about setting up new ones).
If you believe string angle is important, you need to work actively to get what you want, not just trust that it will show up at the end. One can fudge out 158 by changing the neck insert, projection height, and saddle height, all a little bit, to approach 158. Additionally, some violins like a higher or lower angle, depending on their arch and thickness (only a consideration for something out of the norm). I have a tool that measures the projected string angle without strings so that I can set the neck according to the violin, and know for sure what's going to happen when it does eventually have strings on it.
Big picture; I'll give a link rather than post it: http://darntonviolins.com/images2/neck-angle.jpg
The predicted neck angle is almost readable on the white space on the left of the pivot. Finally I re-made this tool in metal, after it got too ratty. :-)
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kjb
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| thanks that makes sense, kevin |
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FiddleDoug
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Are you talking about a new instrument, or an existing instrument? Since I don't make instruments, I'll address the latter. In the case of doing a set-up on an existing instrument, the answer is neither. The answer is the string height above the end of the fingerboard. For instruments with the nominally correct neck angle(For a simplified example, 18.5-22mm top of end of FB to body>), this works. If you're outside that neck angle, you'll need to address the angle.
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R Mac
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Location: Near Phily USA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Darnton wrote: |
Big picture; I'll give a link rather than post it: http://darntonviolins.com/images2/neck-angle.jpg
The predicted neck angle is almost readable on the white space on the left of the pivot. Finally I re-made this tool in metal, after it got too ratty.  |
That's ingenious, Michael!
I hope you will show us a pic of the metal one you replaced it with. I would like to see what improvements you have made.
Mac |
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Michael Darnton
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R Mac
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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That'll be great! Thanks.
Mac |
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kjb
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| Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| FiddleDoug wrote: | | Are you talking about a new instrument, or an existing instrument? Since I don't make instruments, I'll address the latter. In the case of doing a set-up on an existing instrument, the answer is neither. The answer is the string height above the end of the fingerboard. For instruments with the nominally correct neck angle(For a simplified example, 18.5-22mm top of end of FB to body>), this works. If you're outside that neck angle, you'll need to address the angle. |
If I am following you roughly if I am within 18.5 to 22 mm and I can get close to the 158 degrees, I am in the ball park on an existing instrument, if not the neck will need to be reset. thanks |
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FiddleDoug
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| Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:15 am Post subject: |
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"If I am following you roughly if I am within 18.5 to 22 mm and I can get close to the 158 degrees, I am in the ball park on an existing instrument, if not the neck will need to be reset. thanks"
Kind of, but not exactly. What I'm saying is that for most instruments, the optimal FB end is about 20.5mm above the body. The critical measurement for set up of existing instruments is the string height above the FB, NOT the string angle. Within that 18.5-22mm range, you can usually cut a bridge to give you good string heights. I don't even measure string angle, because neck resets, and other remedies to adjust the angle are a lot of work, and clients won't go for the extra cost.
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