Violin Forum/Message Board

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

On the photo below, I have a small dotted line where the root of the heel is. I think it's called the root?? Anyway, I know that some makers put a small chamfer where the dotted line is for excess glue to go when gluing in the neck.

My intention isn't to start any sort of argument about which way is better. I personally don't do it this way although I'll admit that I am tempted to try it because of past gluing issues. I'm just curious about the positives or negatives to doing this.

Thanks,
James

jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

I tend to do it. I was told it gives the excess glue somewhere to go, but I've never really examined the need for it after that.
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L P Reedy · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject:

I would only do it when resetting a neck, because on new work I set the neck before gluing the back. Cutting such a chamfer would be useless and very difficult.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject:

When I was taught, they told me it was allow glue someplace to go. I'm inclined to believe that the real reason is that this is a spot that's a little difficult to get to and might have some un-cut fibers that could get in the way in an irregular manner and throw the neckset off. I do it because I know a lot of people do and it doesn't seem to ruin the way their necks stay in.
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jacobyfineviolins · Member Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 55 Location: Omaha, NE

LP, I can see the benefits of fitting the neck this way, and I've done it on a mandolin. For violin I wonder, do you need a jig to keep the neck angle straight? You can adjust the projection when putting the back on, but do you clamp the corpus down into something when setting the neck?
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L P Reedy · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject:

Chris,
I rely on the fit of the neck in the mortise to maintain alignment in both directions. If I get the fit right the rest is easy. If I don't I'm in trouble.

I use a full thickness mold, in part to minimize damage to the ribs, and I can clamp the whole thing in my bench vise. While I have glued the belly before setting the neck, I generally don't because if I set the neck projection referenced to the mold I can get the angle over the bridge I want without having to compensate for arch height. I don't use clamps when setting the neck this way.

I hope this isn't too confusing.

dan bombliss · Junior Member Joined: 21 May 2013 Posts: 12

So LP,

You have your mold still inside of the ribs when you set the neck and glue it. And while the ribs are still glued to the mold, you glue on your back and then pull the mold out once the back is on to maintain everything as intended?

I read what you wrote, but I still have an issue fully picturing this working out with out a problem. Anytime I've had an instrument of any kind, with a plate off, the neck can pitch easily. The blocks are free to move on one end. So in my head, this all works great until you pull the mold out (in theory), and then the ribs are free to move, prior to gluing the top on.

As someone had mentioned, you don't have issues, or take precautions for any bit of movement?

-Dan

Chet Bishop · Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject:

I'm not Lyle, but I do something similar (with celli, anyway): I set the neck after the top plate is in place, but before the mold is removed, then trim the heel of the neck flush with the back side of the end block, remove the mold, and install the back (after complete cleanup of the interior, etc., obviously).

I can still watch to see that the fingerboard is in correct position, relative to the top plate and centerline, etc., but really doesn't tend to move much. The advantage is that the button is perfectly mated to the heel of the neck, and the neck to the mortise, without the trouble I have had in the past, trying to get that last tiny gap out, and eventually going too far for something else.

I doubt I would ever have thought of doing it that way, but I saw on his website that the late David Rubio did it that way. The man built 1022 instruments before he died at 69...and his wife told me that all but the first one were commissioned. Pretty impressive...I wish I could have known him. He had his detractors, but that is a lot of instruments, and it just seems to me that one could not consistently turn out bad instruments and keep selling them very long before the word got out and people stopped buying them. He had to be doing something right.

So, I tried it, and it works...but I still don't always do that.
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dan bombliss · Junior Member Joined: 21 May 2013 Posts: 12

I suppose with location pins, it wouldn't be an issue anyhow.

I haven't worked on any Violin family instruments in a while, so it had slipped my mind a bit that I spot glue my plates, and drill locating pin marks on neck and tail block, and then adjust the overhang for my margins to be even all around.

With the locating holes drilled, I wouldn't have to worry about pitching the neck on accident.

Thanks for this tip, guys. I like it. It seems it would save alot of time taking on of the pressing factors out of the equation. If you didn't have to watch for making the fit work, and being flush at the bottom, I think it'd be sped up alot. I'm going to try it.

-Dan

L P Reedy · Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject:

Dan,
I've actually done it several ways, but from early on I've used a two-piece mold except twice (first one was built on the back) and the one-piece does not work for me. I currently fit the neck but do not glue it. Then I remove the top half of the mold and install linings, then glue the top. I usually then trim the overhang and purfle, notch out the plate for the neck, then glue the neck, trim heel and remove the back half of the mold. The back linings are added and the back glued on.

I don't glue the blocks to the mold but have used screws for many years. They don't let go unexpectedly and allow stress-free removal of the mold. To be clear, the blocks are attached to the back half of the mold I'm using now but the front half on some of my previous ones. And even different on a couple of older ones but difficult to describe. I don't know whether any of this is clear to anybody but me, and I'm not even too sure about me. Oh, I also use pins both front and back that are located before any real carving takes place.

Lyle

kjb · Super Member Joined: 06 Feb 2013 Posts: 385

how do you set the neck without the top already carved?

L P Reedy · Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject:

Missed this for a few days, Kevin. I reference the neck projection to the (full thickness) mold, saddle height and overstand to get my string angle over the bridge. The arch height, within the range I use, is then irrelevant. I do not worry about a set bridge height. I actually do normally have the top carved before setting the neck and have glued it first, but for me it works better to fit the neck, THEN glue the top.

I should also mention that my molds are made up of boards joined on the accurate centerline. This mold centerline is used to align the neck and the centers of the plates so that there are fewer surprises. Much of this stuff only works for the particular way I work and is not meant as a recommendation.

Lyle

kjb · Super Member Joined: 06 Feb 2013 Posts: 385

Yes, I think I am being converted to the method you are using , so that is why I am asking to get a better understanding of how to do it. I will re-read and digest what you have said here. On my next one I am going to do the neck to ribs before the top is on. thanks for the reply. kevin