Violin Forum/Message Board

[Makatol]

Hi, as a newby just starting to make my first violin I have few (possibly stupid?) questions.

1) I have two nice pieces of straight fine grained, air dried Sitka spruce that would probably each be perfect for a top plate, but could also form a bookend match. I can’t even tell any difference in the grain spacing from one edge of a 12 inch width to the other. Is better to carve them as single pieces, or first split them both and make two bookend matched pieces.
2) Seems to me that the centre of the top plate needs to be strong to support the bridge and soundpost loads, and the sides made free to vibrate. Has anyone ever considered using say a 1.5 inch strip of something stronger (say maple), sandwiched down the centre of the top plate between the spruce?
3) I cut some of the edge strips from black willow which has a wavy grain. I like the appearance of that but was thinking it might warp so I was wondering if pieces with straighter grain are preferable,
4) The willow is also open grain in the heartwood sections with tiny voids like you typically get with most hardwoods. Is that going to be a problem?,
5) Irrrespective of what I may decide to do for a finish on the plates, I was thinking of filling the tiny voids on the edge pieces with pumice and then French polishing but wondering if the vibration may cause problems with that approach?
6) I tried bending some test pieces for the sides and what seems to work best is if I boil the pieces to soften them and get the moisture content up and then bend them using a paint stripper style air gun. I was wondering if I could try adding some ink or artists watercolour paint to the water first to customise the colour of the wood a bit. I’m not sure how evenly that will penetrate into the wood and the result would stand up over time. Sound like a good idea?
7) I was also wondering if adding a bit of Ammonia, or Borax or something similar to the water may kill off any bugs and act as a wood preservative. Necessary?
8) I’m presuming it is OK to use titebond 2 glue for things that are unlikely to need to ever be taken apart (halves of the top plate, and hide glue for things that may, like the top and bottom plates. Does that make sense, or is hide glue better for everything.
9) One wild thought I had was instead of using the corner blocks, was to make the corners without blocks, and then pack some sawdust into the corners and saturate it with crazyglue. Might work in being light and strong but I don’t know about durability etc
10) I plan to use Douglas fir for the blocks that support the end piece and the neck. I have some good quality old growth fine grained material. I imagine that is a good choice but if someone thinks not, now would be the time to change.

11) I tend to believe the theory that some sort of early stage rot actually enhances the tonal quality of wood by reducing mass with very little loss in strength. I think the theory is that the microbes first eat the centre of the fibres making them into tubes, but the walls of the fibres in early stage brown rot retain strength. Another off the wall idea is to take one of my two pieces of spruce and bury it under my compost pile for a year or so before drying it and using it. Is that a crazy idea?
12) Another off the wall idea is to put strips of shellac on the inside of the violin, still allowing the wood to breath bit but maybe slowing the rate at which it responds to changes in the moisture of the air.

Anyway enough wild thoughts for one post, Just exploring if some of these ideas may have been tried, have merit, or sound crazy to someone with more experience.

“We were all a newby to the art of fiddlemaking once, so bear with me",
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[polkat]

A few wild thoughts to be sure. Skip the titebond (anything could need to come apart), and get some good books on violin making!

[DonLeister]

Right, skip the titebond and use only hot hide glue.
Do the coloring and varnishing after it is built, nothing before.
A one piece top is great, they usually cost more than bookmatched 2 piece billet.
Do I understand correctly that you have willow for the back? Maple is preferred for violins, you'll never hear the end of of if you use anything else.
Willow makes great blocks and linings, as does spruce.
Find a decent book like the Johnson/Courtnall book or Henry Stroebel books, they are not too $$ and follow good building practices.
No maple strip down the middle, just follow standard building practice. There are good reasons why violins are made the way they are, which may take some time for you to realize, it would take too long to explain.

[Michael Darnton]

You really do need to build a normal violin, or 100, before you wander off the path into the thorny bushes. Over the last 500 years of violin history, most strange things have already been tried and rejected for definite reasons. Your idea of building without corner blocks and reinforcing the joint otherwise was abandoned around 1600, for instance. #1 and #10 are fine. The other ideas, not so much.
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[kubasa]

In addition, check out this photo essay by Michael.

http://darntonviolins.com/viola.php

The essay is very good and goes step by step through the entire process from start to finish using the "standard" methods of construction and wood. When I started 7 or 8 years ago, I would have loved to have seen this essay but either I didn't find it or it wasn't available back then. The books mentioned by Don are excellent.

[Michael Darnton]

This, too: http://violinmag.com
It's far from finished, though.
Some day. . .
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[Makatol]

Wow, great responses. I can't thank you guys enough. Invaluable advice.

I certainly intend to follow the advice in terms of sticking with hide glue, going with a solid top, using standard blocks and giving up on the "too wild" ideas including making any changes to the top plate ""proven"" design.

However, this may well be the only violin I ever build, (maybe a viola next)and it's for my own recreational use and not something I would ever sell. So I want to take the time on each step to do it right, but also find some way to make it distinctive in the artistic sense as well. So it really it comes down to wondering which ideas may work. in terms of being changes that are not detrimental to the sound quality but may result in a more artistically interesting violin, even if it does require some experimentation or additional work.

[ctviolin]

[kubasa]

[MANFIO]

I made a scroll carving tutorial "step by step" some years ago you could give a look, here:

http://www.violins.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=385&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Good luck!
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[Chet Bishop]

Thanks for re-posting that excellent tutorial, Luis!
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[Cliff Green]

Makatol, you are a lucky person to have found this site. You've already received some excellent advice from very experienced, some world class luthiers. At first glance classical violins seem artistically very simple, but if you seriously study each detail you will find there is much subtlety in the form of a beautiful violin. Like a picture of a beautiful woman, it is hard to describe the reason for that beauty but taken in the whole it is self evident. You will be justifiably proud of your first violin and it will be artistically yours without your trying very hard.
Take the given advice, get the books suggested, read everything Michael Darnton has written and given so freely. Read it again, no study it. After your first violin you will no doubt see areas for improvement and therein lies the trap for making a second, a fifth, and a 100th.
If you decide to make a viola, Manfio has built many and can give you some great advice.
Good Luck

[MANFIO]

I would not use chemistry in a first instrument (perhaps in my last too).
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