Violin Forum/Message Board

ctviolin · Last edited by ctviolin on Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:44 pm; edited 3 times in total

I'm curious what other makers charge for their handiwork.

Not necessarrily professionals, but that would interest me also.

Let me add that much of the work I've seen from hand work, is from "ameture, up to semi-professional" but still is usually and obviously handmade (as my own work is) up to and including white violins that are varnished as and sold as hand-made, professional work, but are actually mass produced Chinese (usually white) violins. Very nice, but not exactly what I'm looking for here.

true handmade, where all of the fine work may still be a bit rough - and a good portion of it can range anyhere seemngly, between beginning work or even original personal work, to the brink of mature or standard professional work, to me is a very interesting subject...

What I have come to recognize as a white violin, varnished and sold as professional handmade work, I'm not all that interested in discussing.

The thing I wonder at, is how much various people end up charging for their truly handmade work - of whatever quality?

If I am asked I will say what I charge for a violin, and I have said how much I charge for my work, but I would like an answer first, without creating any type of "standard" or prejudice for having to answer a prticular answer or a particular price range.

Thanks for any answers.
ct
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ctviolin

oops!, sorry - duplicate!
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Cliff Green · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject:

I've been lucky to sell my violins for $1500, cellos $3K. I just picked those figures out of the blue. It pays for my materials and tools and is a lot better remuneration than I ever got from fishing. I, of course, think that I'm practically giving them away, but as an amateur with no credentials and no desire towards making a living or developing a market feel good about having the opportunity to build. I'd post some pictures but I don't see a method to do that here.[/img]

kubasa · Member Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Posts: 212

Interesting question. I've often wondered the same thing. Without sounding like I'm promoting myself, I was made an offer for 3 of my instruments by a dealer who will only sell hand made instruments. I didn't sell. Not because I don't think that his offer wasn't good enough but I told him that I want a few more years under my belt. This is a hobby and I'm definitely still in the amateur category. Also, I have no idea what a fair offer truly is for my instruments. It seemed more than fair in my opinion but I don't know so your question is good and I'll be curious to see what others have to say.

This also reminds me of another related issue. I donated a violin for charity and was critisized by a friend who is an artist. He claims that artist donations lower prices across the market and lowers your value as a seller. I'm not sure if I agree with him as I think the violin market is different from the arts (pottery, painting, jewelry, etc) market but his comments lurk in the back of my brain....

James

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:55 am Post subject:

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:22 am Post subject:

johngia · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Posts: 84

I too would like to know the answer to this question.

I just finished my latest two a couple of weeks ago, No. 19 and 20. Had planned on taking them to a couple of local violin shops, but a couple of Life's diversions have interrupted.

7-8 years ago I had one shop tell me that he thought I could get around $2000 for No 5. They have gotten better since then --- I think.

Whatever the price --- How to sell? Direct? Consignment? Online? Legalities of all avenues? Insurance? Warrantees? What if they fall apart? After all, I am self taught --- with online help. I am still playing my first born, and it's still holding together.

Even at $2000, I felt that they were worth more to me than that and that I would just hang on to them, but they are doing no good doing nothing --- now. (Someday they'll be worth millions <G>) And a little extra money sure would help now.

Anyway, hopefully next month or two I can have them appraised.

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject:

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject:

I handle my sales much like Craig's. I think it's a good idea to take care of customers, and do a lot of free work on my own violins just about forever, if it's not too extensive--things like adjustments and touching up nicks, adjusting bridge height. A year is enough time to find out if something's really going to go haywire, but after that, if I think I was at fault, I'll fix it. For instance, I have replaced a couple of tops where I thought I'd done something that was a mistake, maybe, even though I wasn't really sure.

My violins sell for $18,000, which I gather is not too much for where I'm at in the world at this point. In Chicago I often see recent grads of the violin making schools and they try to sell instruments for around $7000 or so retail. These are violins that are pretty well made, but often relatively uninformed, sort of generic violins. Customers would think they're fine; I often have a hard time figuring out what model I'm looking at.

I guess they do the job, but the ideal would be to find someone who does good work but needs some shaping, and I'm sometimes amazed at how clueless (or egotistical) beginners can be about their need for education. That's not a problem, though--we just let them pass through. We (the shop, Darnton & Hersh Fine Violins "we") are always looking for someone who's new and really clever and wants to learn as much as possible that we can take and work with, but those people are like hen's teeth.
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actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Michael:

I know asking this might sound indelicate, and I really don't mean it that way.

You're an established name now... a big cheese! How much of a purchase "premium" is factored into your violin price as a result of that fact, over the "sound value" if that makes any sense.

In other words, I'm asking if buyers are willing to pay a purchase premium up front, for the confidence that at point of resale they will not suffer a "this was made by an unknown" markdown.

I also get in spades that quality and price go together.

best regards,
E

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Put in a different way, how much would an unlabelled instrument made by big ticket modern makers like you, Zygmuntowicz et al sell for in a major shop?

Best regards,

E

DonLeister · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject:

I take Michael's advice to heart when it comes to taking care of my customers. If I see them out playing I ask to see their violin so I can check it out, and many times I see something that needs attention before they will mention it. They have no idea all the things I might do to keep it 'fit'.
I have never had one come back but I do allow people to trade an instrument in for another if they wish.

But to reply to your question Craig, which is what one charges, I price mine in the range of 2500-3500, it may depend on how many l have in stock or if I have one that works really well and I am not too eager to see it go then I ask more.
I am working on instruments that are numbered in the upper 60's and number 70 actually.

The last few violins that I sold went to the first people that tried them, they just worked really well and they happened to be ones that I was able to use Michael's arching templates on when I was at his workshop this year. One had a problem of a bit too much varnish on it and it benefitted from a re-varnish job.
I know a number of shops that would like to have my instruments for sale but my experience with consigning an instrument has been mixed. They get a decent price, better than I can, often, but then they get a good percentage of that, which is understandable.
The down side is that instruments can sit for a while and I might not hear any feedback from players if it isn't working well.
I have to say that not all instruments work great from the start either, some feedback is helpful, even necessary to bring an instrument to it's full potential. For me anyway.

That brings me to another issue which is that some (often amateur) maker's work in a shop alone, and don't have the benefit of hearing what an instrument needs to do. You have to be around violins being played by violinists, regularly, or by fiddlers if that is your market.
When you are in a shop with co-workers and players player's with valuable expertise-that is extremely useful and valuable.

Well your question was what one charges but I think this is related, l hope it's not too much ranting on my part.

Michael Darnton · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:40 am Post subject:

Relative values is a hard thing. One thing I've tried to avoid is getting into an overpriced situation, where things are going well and a maker bumps his prices up to something that is unsustainable. When we started our shop we had one famous maker with high prices and a supposed back-order situation contact us because he had nine (!) unsold instruments in his shop. I since then have seen similar situations (remember the maker last year whose violins are only available if he lowered himself to letting you have one, then a representative in NYC opened up with four available, right away?) If I started naming names, you'd find it interesting. Generally, take that "I'm backed up for a year" stuff with a big spoon of salesman. . . . uh, I mean salt.

For that reason, I've tried to keep my prices towards the middle-back of the pack. When I make something, I don't have trouble selling it. My instruments compete well with old ones, and I don't have to make excuses for my prices. I don't make a lot these days, but last year I had a single other dealer sell three, above what we do in our own shop, and he's begging me for more, so I guess the pricing is OK.

It's hard to say what happens in a genuinely open market. Several makers have boosted their reputations based on just one highly-visible strangely-high auction sale, but on the other hand, every maker fears what might happen if the opposite happened at an auction, and it does, regularly. . . . for both new and old instruments, so it's not just a matter of new violins not keeping up. But when it happens with a new violin there's someone alive to point at and kick so the perception is worse.
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ctviolin · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:14 am Post subject:

johngia · Member Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Posts: 84

In another thread here I said, "So much to learn"

I think what I am learning through this conversation is that I am not qualified to sell these things on my own. I build 'em. Put the sound post in the recommended starting position. String it up. Play a few notes. What it sounds like it sounds like. Put it in a case. Store it in the closet.

Set up? Maintenance? Adjustments? Optimize tone? I know nothing of these aspects. I think I would need a dealer to do all that.

And also, I do have the problem of becoming emotionally attached to my babies. It would be hard to let them go.