Violin Forum/Message Board

[arordame]

I just read an article about Gibson Guitars being raided by Federal Agents from the Fish and Wildlife department. Apparently, they had some concerns about the ebony being used in their guitars. Has anyone had a problem like this? The article states that even taking your instrument across national borders can present a problem as you need to prove the provenance of any restricted wood.

[Chet Bishop]

I guess one solution would be to switch to Ipé instead of Ebony. Celluloid instead of Ivory. They are still selling Ipé for decking, so I doubt it will be banned too soon...and if it is, I s'pose we can come up with something else.
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Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

[cmkaco]

Probably not much endangered wood in a violin, although there is ebony and some of that is endangered, depending on which variety it is, and how it was purchased. Could be some in rosewood pegs.

So, I am starting to think about these issues. I have bought ebony fingerboards before, always from places like StewMac or LMI. You never get any kind of certificate that it is legal. Even if they did send one, what does that mean? There are no serial numbers or registration marks on the wood, and even if there were, they would get removed when we machine it to size.

Say you buy a dozen fingerboards and they send you one certificate. You make 11 violin fingerboards out 11 pieces and use one piece to make a whole bunch of nuts. How do you link the fingerboards and nuts to the certificate (which you probably didn't get anyway) and prove that is where they actually came from?

[Andres Sender]

Although if current trends continue ebony will be a concern some day, the Gibson incident is not about a CITES issue per se, but rather a US law which requires that we honor the laws of other countries on things having to do with manufactured products vs. raw materials. Turns out the feds believe Gibson was in violation of an (east) Indian law, although apparently the Indian government had taken no notice of it.

Gibson explains it all rather well in a statement on their site.
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You can only connect the dots that you have.

[Dave Chandler]

Andres is correct -- Its all about Reciprocal Enforcement -- The way I read it, they were enforcing a Madagascar law. Madascar prohibits the export of Ebony, to protect their own forest resources. By reciprocity countries that enforce exportation to US of items we wish to protect, then -- in reciprocity -- we enforce their laws as well whether or not we have the same view on its status.

WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF WHAT IS AND WHAT ISN'T ENDANGERED --That said, there are species of Ebony listed as endangered mostly in Southeast Asia, and Africa. NO mention of India, or Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh, or Burma, but yes -- Indonesia, Laos and Vietnam. Interestingly, Madagascar is not mentioned.

There is, of course, no actual country of East India, nor is there a government of East India. That would be any Indian state from Bihar to the Burma border -- oops I mean "Myanmar." The Indian government would of course not enforce a state export law, as the states do not have authority in that domain. Indian central government is VERY sensitive about State's making their own foreigh policy or export/import regulations.

I think if you disguise your violin as a piece of ebony plank and try to take it out of Madagascar, you might have problems.

Now that you've read this far, you deserve to know -- I spent a good part of my 28 year militry career either living in East and South Asia, or as a South Asia political & military analyst. If you've never been to India, you should go, absolutely the most colorful and vibrant country I've ever experienced.

Ok, I'm stepping down off my soapbox now.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo