Violin Forum/Message Board

Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: A 1735 Kloz viola - just for fun

Just some thoughts on a viola I'm starting to make. This may be a good case for trying to figure out what the maker was attempting, rather than just copy what now exists. So here goes.

I'm modeling it on a 16.25" 1735 Kloz Violia, made in Mittenwald. Just for fun, I decided to plot the arches front and back (top area of photo below and first graph) and discovered there is a lot of distortion to the belly around the soundpost area.

So, no longer just for fun, I decided I needed to realign the arches to be near mirrors front and back, and still preserve the same volume as the original viola (thus all the calculations)

I still think I should add a bit more volumn to account for the area that has been displaced by the falling of the center of the top over the near 300 years since it was made. I PRESUME it wasn't originally built this way.

[img]

Kloz calculations by David Chandler, on Flickr[/img]

Even with this attempt to maintain volume and approximate arching (less the fallen arches), it still doesn't take into consideration the graduation as these are all outside measurements, and it is not adjusted to account for the arch from side to side, just treats them as little square boxes. And then there's the wood......the varnish......and so many other variations.

Anyway, just food for thought. Comments or insights appreciated.

I was surprised how easy it was to copy and paste this from Excel into a blank "paint" document and save it as a .jpg file on Flikr.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Dave Chandler · Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: Kloz viola

Here's a side view of the original viola.\

[img]

treble side by David Chandler, on Flickr[/img]
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject:

That arch on the top is definitely a good example of what not to copy!

So you think the middle sunk and the ends stayed about where they were intended?

Dave Chandler · Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject:

I would think that it would push outward side to side, rather than toward the ends. Probably negligable.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject:

My thought is the ends have come up, mostly due to bad arch design and the middle has stayed about the same height, making it look like the middle has sunken. Too puffy to begin with near ends.
In my instruments that is the area that will go up if any thing does, so I avoid that shape, at least as the long arch approaches the ends.
How did you find that model viola? It looks nice.

Dave Chandler · Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:02 am Post subject:

Don,
I would think that it would be harder to push longitudinally (lots more wood and lots more stiffness) than across, but you're right, it looks puffy.

I got a load of plans and templates from a luthier that had passed away, and compared what I had with what I found in http://theluthierlibrary.com and the Kloz dimensions nearly fit them perfectly. What I was missing was the rib heights, arch heights, and a few other dimensions. I just had to add a mm or two in the bouts to make the plans I had on hand match up with the Kloz dimensions.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject:

I like the Luthier's Library, it is a great resource.
What I hear from good professionals is that the arch on the front will puff up in the ends especially the upper bout and sink a bit in the middle area.
But there are so many variables when it comes to arching ...
I noticed on the picture of the Klotz that it looks like the top is touching the fingerboard.

A related topic is that I have a cheap (Cremona) bass in the shop right now where the upper bout is almost straight/flat from the bridge to the neck, but really puffy below the bridge to the endblock. The problem is the action has lowered resulting in a buzz. When I looked inside I could see the bass bar has come loose at the upper end, about 2 inches, and if I press on the area I can watch the fingerboard move closer to the strings, it's that flexible.
I don't know how or whether it even applies to this viola but it is sort of interesting. This bass is (too) thin all over.

Hope you have fun with the viola.

Don

Dave Chandler · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: Update on Kloz Viola

Just a bit of an update. Here's the back of my Kloz viola

[img]

Georg Kloz Viola by David Chandler, on Flickr[/img]

I liked the glow of the wood so much, I decided not to make it dark brown opaque like the original.

Should have the fingerboard on tonight, pegs tomorrow, and other fittings coming along. More to come.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Dave Chandler · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: Kloz viola top

And here's a photo of the front.

[img]

Kloz viola front by David Chandler, on Flickr[/img]

I need to re-shoot the scroll, my hand-held photography didn't come out so well.

These photos were taken before rubbing it down with rottenstone & olive oil. It just takes the glossy edge off a bit without taking away from the ability to see down through the finish into the wood.

The wood by the way came from Don M. Barnes "Grandpa's Workshop" Okotoks, Alberta.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

DonLeister · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject:

Wow! That looks real nice and well done, it is interesting to see a different model. Thanks for posting that.

Joseph Leahy · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:03 am Post subject:

Hi Dave

Very nice work!

I believe Grandpa's Workshop is located in Okotoks, Alberta, Canada rather than in Ontario. http://www.grandpasworkshop.com/

Dave Chandler · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: