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Chris Knowlton
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Pinehurst, North Carolina
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Competition for most positions is high. If I have an opportunity to choose between an applicant who possesses good mechanical skills but cannot articulate and one who has good mechanical skills and can, guess which one gets hired? Good grammar is important to many. To ignore this basic skill is to put yourself in jeopardy when you apply for a position. You will never know ahead of time just how important this is to a potential employer, or customer,
Chris
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Last edited by Chris Knowlton on Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Darnton
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1347
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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I would even argue that your chances of getting a good job are more predicated on your personality and attitude than the specific skills you happen to have at that moment. Skills can be taught, but you're stuck with your personality and attitude. That certainly been both my experience and the experience of many of the people I've known or worked with: they present themselves for jobs they may not even be qualified for, but someone recognizes their potential, and fits them in somewhere, changing how they're used until they find their appropriate niche. On the other hand, if you get hired for a low level job based on your low level skills and nothing else, there's a good chance you're going to stay in that position forever. . . if your personality isn't so offensive that your co-workers conspire to get you canned.
I fully realize in saying this that everyone will have at least one or two examples where this didn't happen, but that doesn't negate the general trend.
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David Burgess
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Chad48309 wrote: | Let me put it to you this way. Say an inner-city student walks in one day looking for a job and training. He could have a list of recommendations a mile long, but if the first thing he says to me is "Wallah son, you gon' show me summa dish? I hurr ya, feel ya on dat. Gimme shum datta instruction, son."
Guess what? He's not getting in the door. If I cannot communicate with someone, I cannot work with them. It's as simple as that. I will lose months of training time just by attempting to discern what is being said. Your writing reflects your quality and structure of thought, though I would concede your quality of speech is a much greater asset. However, I will judge based on these rules when communicating entirely by writing, which I and everyone else here is doing right now.
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When I think of all the foreigners I've worked with over the years, some of whom spoke and wrote English very poorly, or hardly at all, it's hard to see this as a deal breaker.
And I haven't yet met an inner city person who didn't have good listening comprehension of mainstream English, from exposure to radio and television. I didn't always understand them very well, but they had no difficulty understanding me. Communication was much easier than, say, with the teacher from the Beijing violin school who came here last summer to learn, and will be here again this summer. With a little practice, an awful lot can be communicated by, "Do like this", "No this", or nods and facial gestures while demonstrating.
Some of my best training in general fabricating came from a guy who could barely read or write. He was an incredibly creative three-dimensional thinker. When I asked how he came up with some of his creative ideas, he said, "It's from having no money. Been on my own since I was nine years old. Never had no money to buy things, so I learned to make or fix them myself. Never wrote good enough to fill out a job application, so I'm unemployed a lot and still making and fixing things."
Of course, there's more to that story. Not everyone without money is motivated to make things, or has the level of talent to do so.
When I lived in Los Angeles, the owner of a local motorcycle shop was touring with a group in Mexico. Someone in the group had some mechanical problems, and they were referred to a mechanic, who they were told could fix anything. Parts weren't available, but this mechanic did things like getting an undersize piston to work by raising enough metal with a pattern of hand center-punching (he didn't have the equipment to knurl the piston). And securing a sloppy press-together crankshaft by hand-drilling and pinning it. They were skeptical about some of his methods, but he assured them that he had done things like these many times before, and they wouldn't have any problem finishing the tour and making it home.
When they got home without incident, they were so impressed, that they brought him to the US and hired him. It wasn't that they had a use for the things he had needed to do in Mexico, but that they were so impressed with the level of understanding and creativity which enabled him to do it. He didn't read or write English or Spanish, and probably never moved up to working in the office, but so what?
I've had highly (school) educated employees who were so-so, and less educated employees who were brilliant. It's been hard to see a consistent pattern. |
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Lemuel
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Excellent perpective, David.
It's funny you are mentioning about foreign languages as I was thinking of the same thing in my employment situation. I had great satisfaction working with a Vietnamese immigrant that could barely speak English. It took a little "longer" to get things done, but we really enjoyed working together.
Then I think of about all the language teachers and what they go through.
Finally, I think of my own three children, where one is more technically perfect than the other two, and has trouble receiving correction and "criticism" (critique) constructively, which I find more difficult to work with. (Then I have to watch that I respond with a proper attitude, so it turns out that I am being trained and not only the children.  ).
Finally, I have seen people come and go in the twenty years working with two luthiers. In every single case, the ones that have gone did not have the humility (willingness to make and accept mistakes and failure), patience and commitment to continue - in short, a proper attitude. |
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Chad48309
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Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Posts: 110
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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This is incredibly subjective, and I suppose we'll all have different work practices and opinions on it. Personality and communication skill are the most important qualities I look for in those who work with me, because I will judge the merits of their work separate from these qualities, though typically more harshly and after their personality and communication skills have gotten them a foot in the door.
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David Burgess
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Lemuel wrote: | Excellent perpective, David.
Finally, I think of my own three children, where one is more technically perfect than the other two, and has trouble receiving correction and "criticism" (critique) constructively, which I find more difficult to work with. (Then I have to watch that I respond with a proper attitude, so it turns out that I am being trained and not only the children. ).
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We are all trained by those whom we train, aren't we? At least, I think that's the way to use the situation to maximum mutual advantage. |
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TheOtherMike
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I once hired a guy into my shop (custom fab), he showed up for his interview wearing a backwards hat, instead of shaking my hand when we met for the first time he simply said "ey". Having a shaky start with the company myself (missed my interview but arranged to show up at 8am and go straight to work anyway) I figured Id give him a shot. Worst mistake I ever made lol.
My suggestions: If your going to apply above all else be polite and use manners. If your going to apply dont apply using a name like "Catgut", and be prepared to give plenty of reasons why youd be fantastic at what you wish to do. I am not trying to put you down, only help so that perhaps on your next attempt you will succeed as it seems it is truly what you want to do :] |
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