Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

The exact shape of the ends of a sound post can (should ?) be flat.I have also seen advice that the ends can be slightly rounded. (domed). Are there strong opinions either way?
The adjustment of a post must never be done without releasing string tension.Is a slight change to a flat ended post likely to shift contact from one edge to the other edge and give too much alteration.
I believe Carleen Hutchins was in the curved (domed ) camp.

[Michael Darnton]

Full contact, especially on the back, is tonally important. I can tell by listening when a post probably isn't flat against the back. Domed posts are never in full contact.

A post which is well and properly fit can be moved without loosening the strings by squeezing the violin slightly to lift just a bit of the tension. If there's not a corner sticking out and binding, the post will slide without doing any damage. If the post isn't properly cut, you don't have to move it around to damage the top--just tightening the strings will do that.

[actonern]

Michael, how do you approach the project of carefully fitting a post to an instrument where the top is all over the place with deformed pits and dents in the post region. A close fitting of the post accross its entire diameter seems a tough achievement... do you get "real close" and allow the spruce to further crush and deform for a final fit?
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[Michael Darnton]

The very most important thing is to be able to get the post back into exactly the same position. If you can do that, you can see by the way the top and back buff up the ends of the post where it's fitting and how. With the violins I work on, the top and back usually aren't very messed up--perhaps because people have always been careful with them.

[John Cadd]

I`m trying to imagine sqeezing and adjusting.You would need some spare arms ,I think.The post is a capricious thing if it decides to be awkward. I take my hat off to you for being able to do that.
It is in the same league as splitting a large diamond. Strong nerves needed.

[Michael Darnton]

It's a lot easier if you handle the setter with your left hand, and you can see better, too. When I teach people, I try to get them to do it that way while they still don't have any experience with the right hand.

[Michael Darnton]

[actonern]

Hi Michael:

I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are on the maple veneer some makers glue into the post area of the top, in order to improve the crush and abrasion resistance of the spruce.

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[Michael Darnton]

I don't have any experience with it, so I don't have an opinion on the tonal aspects. Can differential shrinkage and expansion cause problems in the long run? I don't know.

It seems like a solution in search of a problem.

[Joseph Leahy]

On first blush, spruce on spruce makes the most sense to me. I am ok with the original Cremonese process, not because I don't think its a good idea to try new things, I just think that Strad et al had a lot of time at this and got it right.

I wonder how the stresses of shrinkage and expansion of the woods would come into play over the long run. As Michael alluded to, it may solve the problem of wear while introducing as yet unknown issues over the long term of stress fractures etc. Has there been any published research relating to the changes in response, tone etc.? I would think that those who are using this method researched this prior to implementing to confirm that it was an improvement in all aspects.

I think there are also makers who have these veneers under the bridge. I think that having the harder maple at this critical point would certainly have some effect on tone.

I am talking out of my hat as I have not researched any of this. Just my thoughts.

[rs]

I tried a maple patch on spruce once. The top had been stepped on and up until the moment the Florsheim struck the violin, it had been a first rate violin. The area fragmented was the lower bass bout. The only logical repair was a complex patch and I tried maple. It played very heavy afterwards and required a lot more thinning and still wasn't as great as it had been.

As for the soundpost area, Michael's idea of step fitting the soundpost according to the terrain of the plates is the best. If it is so bad that I would shy from that, then I would scoop that area and fit a spruce on spruce soundpost patch as a last resort. But I will never use a maple patch again on spruce.

But that is just me.
_________________
Randall Shenefelt

[actonern]

I asked because Gregg Alf as far as I know started putting them on all his instruments some years ago, and claims no detriment to performance...

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[Michael Darnton]

I have heard that it brightens an instrument. I guess that could be good or bad, depending.

[rs]

Actonern and Michael, my question is, is this maple veneer simply attached much as a cleat to the spruce? (In contrast to patching). If this is so, then it could always be removed relatively easily without damage to the top. I am curious and would like to try it at some point, especially after your last two comments.

This is a lot different than my one bad experience I noted and I believe I was comparing apples to oranges.

Best wishes
_________________
Randall Shenefelt

[Michael Darnton]

It's in the form of a veneer overlay, on top of the wood. Yes, it could be removed without changing anything else, and the violin would then be "normal".