Violin Forum/Message Board

[CT Dolan]

Michael,

I have seen the laser scans before, and just watched them again. I do not in the least understand what you're talking about when you speak of bandwidth, but will download the video for future reference (so as to not cause a drain on your bandwidth, even though I've no clue what I'm even talking about ).

Thank you...again!

Chris

[Michael Darnton]

In this context it means that if I put up a bunch of big files (and movie files are very big), and everyone gets excited and starts downloading them, I end up paying a lot of extra bucks as my reward for being a nice guy. :-) Soon, though, I will be moving my site to a different provider where that won't be an issue.

My wife (who does this for money for other people, but I get a special deal :-) is in the process of redoing the whole site, too. The overall look won't change a lot, but the way things are done behind the scenes will be slicker. I really like what she's doing with the viola making pages--that's going to be much easier to get through when she's done.

[CT Dolan]

Sorry, Michael, I guess my good intentions had the opposite effect of that which I'd hoped!

[Joseph Leahy]

[Andres Sender]

If you look at the outline and compare either side of the button, on the right (bass) side you see a fullness of curve, on the left (treble) side you see that the curve flattens quite a bit. This is most obvious if you focus on a spot about 2 inches out from the button.

Looking at the photo of the back it is apparent that there has been a great deal of wear here, presumably from playing in high positions.

You have to be very careful applying modern preference for symmetry to judging the work of the old Cremonese makers. Our culture values symmetry to a level which is actually much higher than what most people can detect by just looking. The old makers just weren't fussy about it, they seem to have paid more attention to balance, nice curves, and the interrelation of forms. It's true that Stradivari wouldn't have made a curve like that, but that's probably more because he wanted nicer curves than because he wanted perfect symmetry.

[Joseph Leahy]

Thanks Andres,
The more I study various violin models the more I appreciate the idea of perfection as being something other than the more sterile attitude of perfection by many today. Evidence of makers marks, asymmetry etc. adds so much to the intrinsic beauty of the instrument.

Joe

[Michael Darnton]

I was just thinking the same yesterday regarding tone. I was listening to music in the car, randomly, and one violin piece grabbed my ear because the tonal quality was so incredibly boring--loud, soft, any note, they all sounded exactly the same. It was like I was listening to a synthesizer, not a violin. I was ready to bump to the next random track because the flatness of the violin was getting to me, but I checked first, and it was a young player who's famous for promoting one particular modern maker. A track or two later was one of Grumiaux, and the sound was 1000X better.

This is a problem of a lot of new violins in general, but violinists are pushing it, too, that a violin sound should have no texture in it, and sound vaguely electronic, though if I stated it that way they'd be insulted. Me, I hate it.

One of the characteristics of a good violin sound is an audible flicker, like a candle flame, where the sound changes rapidly even as it's being played on one note, because there's so much going on. Strip that out, and you geet a violin that's theoretically perfect, but boring.

[Michael Darnton]

In the shower just now, I think I put some order on what I was thinking about arching, overall, regarding this question: "Michael do you think of the 'Ole Bull' and 'Cannone' style long top arches as being part of a family of attempted solutions to the weakness of low arches, or should the 'Ole Bull' type be separated out from del Gesu's work altogether? Wink"

Of the long arches that I have seen THAT WORK, there's a common underlying idea. Imagine a two-sided bridge. When it's flat, it's flat, but when it is only up a bit, the two sides form a roof peak, and the more it goes up, the larger is the flat spot in the air between the two ends of the bridge. That's exactly how the best long arches work--the higher they are, the longer the relatively-flat spot in the center is. Low archings with a long flat are too floppy and result in a rubbery sound; high ones with points are too stiff, and the result is thin. And the progression you see in good violins is constant, that the longer flat centers are seen on higher violins, and pointy arches are on the low ones, not invariably, but often enough for that to be a good rule.

[CT Dolan]

"...the tonal quality was so incredibly boring--loud, soft, any note, they all sounded exactly the same. It was like I was listening to a synthesizer, not a violin. I was ready to bump to the next random track because the flatness of the violin was getting to me, but I checked first, and it was a young player who's famous for promoting one particular modern maker. A track or two later was one of Grumiaux, and the sound was 1000X better." - This is why I play gut, although just today I put a Larsen A on my violin, as I had one laying around (to use until I get a new Eudoxa in the next day or two). Gut has so much character, and to be honest I cannot for the life of me see why modern players are so put off by gut and so stuck on synthetics. Truly, seeing synthetic strings on a Strad or del Gesu just makes me cringe! As for the tuning stability thing, gut is just fine once settled in (and I've used most...plain gut, Eudoxa, Passione, you name it). Gut has a very rich tonal pallet, and in my experience with my violin (a late German violin, however one with good arching and tone), gut is capable of plenty of power and projection when wanted, all without losing that great sound...just use some bow speed (pay attention to Hefietz, et al), maintain a good contact point (again, watch Hiefetz and some of his contemporaries) and you'll get all you want! Gut seems to have a sound that can really carry, even though it may not hurt under your ear. In my opinion, it is the rich tonal pallet of gut that allows it to carry so well, as it does not die away, but rather has resonant over-tones galore, the kind that saturate every crevice of the space in which it is played.

[CT Dolan]

"Of the long arches that I have seen THAT WORK, there's a common underlying idea. Imagine a two-sided bridge. When it's flat, it's flat, but when it is only up a bit, the two sides form a roof peak, and the more it goes up, the larger is the flat spot in the air between the two ends of the bridge. That's exactly how the best long arches work--the higher they are, the longer the relatively-flat spot in the center is. Low archings with a long flat are too floppy and result in a rubbery sound; high ones with points are too stiff, and the result is thin. And the progression you see in good violins is constant, that the longer flat centers are seen on higher violins, and pointy arches are on the low ones, not invariably, but often enough for that to be a good rule." - Interesting, very interesting... It makes sense when considered in this context. Just now I looked at my del Gesu 'Alard' poster, and it shows this feature exactly as described above. I have grown quite fond of the arching of the del Gesu 'Alard', having less of a scoop around the perimeter than the 'Lord Wilton', and very attractive long arches. It seems as tough del Gesu, in a general sense with regard to his archings, has tried to take in something of Stradivari (his basic form) and Amati (often having more of scoop around the edge than appears to have been common with Stradivari). In so doing, he seems to have managed the power of Stradivari (and a BOOMING lower register with edge, on the G and D in particular) while maintaining something of the richness of an Amati (in the higher register, especially on the A and E strings). So, I realize that this is a gross generalization (and that my exposure to any of the above makers is pretty much non-existent), but when I at long last had the opportunity to view the Biddulph publication I was struck with the variety of arching displayed, and especially the heavily scooped edge I saw in some of del Gesu's instruments. For me, it was something totally unexpected, and as I was in John Waddle's shop looking over the book (thank you, John) the thought that immediately came to mind was "Man, this is SO like an Amati!" As I said, it was totally unexpected.

[CT Dolan]

Actually, my last statement was even more than a gross generalization (backed up by little), but there does appear to be something of the Amati influence in the scooped (sometimes heavily scooped) arching of del Gesu, much more so than in anything I have seen from Stradivari. I guess this should come as no surprise, with the Guarneri family background and all (however, Stradivari may have been a pupil of Nicolo Amati himself, and even if not no doubt he was exposed to the work of the Amati clan, and maybe with regard to arching the early work that closely follows the Amati form has the same traits...I just don't know), but I think that in the context of del Gesu's work as it compares to that of Stradivari (maybe from 1700 and on?), that the differnence in edgework coupled with the difference in their outlines (of which del Gesu appeared to have little variety, compared to Stradivari), well this is a very important distinction. I know full well that nobody says there is a distinct Strad or del Gesu sound (indeed, the ex-Hiefetz del Gesu is quite apart from the Cannone, which is quite apart from the Leduc, and so on), but even so, something unique remains, right?

Okay, now I am totally lost in my thoughts. Time to turn in and hope some sleep will help my mind de-clutter. Maybe when I get out to the farm tomorrow morning at 3:00 and get busy, I'll regain some clarity and actually be able to articulate (to myself) what the heck it is I am trying to say, and in so doing gather my thoughts into a meaningful pile. Sometimes these are the only times I can think, when it is early and the only sounds I hear are that of the puslating milking machine and the stray chatter of a few dozen contented bovines. Sorry for having said so much about so little! Good night, all.

[Chris Knowlton]

Hi Chris,

I sent you a PM in the other forum a few days ago. Did you recieve it?

Chris
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