Violin Forum/Message Board

[M.Lange]

Manfio, I like your varnish very much and I want to cook some of the "Marciana" varnish. Are there further instructions in the recipe? Where did you get the recipe?
I read some of your older posts on your varnish, but I think you never mentioned the time and the temperature you cook your varnish at.
It would be very generous of you, if you could give that information. It would really help me a lot. Although I could absolutely understand, if you don't want to.

Matthias

[MANFIO]

Hi! The recipe is on the Biblioteca Marciana, Venice, in a manuscript dated about 1550:

"Item Vernice che si distende come olio et seccha presto et è molto lustrante et bella et pare uno specchio di vetro et per stare alla cosa et sopra liuti et simile cose è mirabile;" ma nel testo, queste "simile cose" sono descritte come manufatti in legno, ferro, carta, cuoio e opere dipinte:

"Togli per una misura: una libra d'olio di linseme, et quocilo come si fà in una pignatta invetriata netta, poi vi metti su mesa libbra di pece greca chiara et bella et polverizzata et mesta quando la metti, tanto che si incorpori bene a fuoco dolce, poi vi metti su mezza libra di mastice macinato, et quando lo metti perché ei rigonfia leverai però la pignata da fuoco et mettilo su a poco a poco mestando et incorporando bene, poi torna la pignata al fuoco et mesta tanto che si solva ogni cosa bene, poi mettivi quanto una noce di allume di roccha arso pesto et mesta che si solva et incorpori bene poi lievala dal fuoco et colala per peza lina vecchia et serbala, et per legname, et per ferro et per carta et corame et per ogni dipintura et lavoro farà un opera bellissima et per stare alla aqua, et quando ti pare soda stempera con olio di lino come si fa etc. ".


Claire Curtis offered this translation, that I find good (Tradutore, traditore!):

"put a pound of linseed oil in a glass vessel, then half a pound of good greek pitch (clear, attractive, and pulverized). Mix on a gentle (?sweet) heat. Add a half pound of minced mastic. It will swell up so remove the vessel from the fire and mix until every thing is dissolved well. Then add the walnut-size amount of ground burnt alum and mix until it is all incorporated, then filter through a piece of old linen."

I use this varnish in my ground. Neil Ertz uses it too, and he discussed his methods in this interesting thread on MAESTRONET:

http://www.maestronet.com/foru...2136&messageid=272165

I cooked the oil for some time, then I added the minced colophony (good quality, Kremer makes one dark that makes a darker varnish), cooked for a bit more, turned of the fire, waited 15 minutes, added the minced mastic and continued cooking. I use a stainless steel pan to cook it and make small batches (100 grams oil, 50 grams or each resin). Of course making varnish is allways dangerous and should be made outside, etc., etc.

"Actonern" made this varnish with Walnut oil, I think he described his method here sometime ago.
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[Andres Sender]

This is the link:

http://www.maestronet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=272136&messageid=272165

[M.Lange]

Thank you very much.

Matthias

[MANFIO]

Andres, and others: how do you cook your oil? Have you ever tried walnut oil? Thanks!
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[actonern]

The "Marciana" recipe is, as Manfio so successfully demonstrates on his instruments, very nice stuff.

But for anyone who hasn't cooked their own varnish before I would add that the cooking process STINKS. Don't even think about doing it indoors unless you want to commence immediate divorce proceedings.

And even outside, you may find neighbors looking in disgust at your house.

[M.Lange]

I just finished reading the thread from the Maestronet forum. Very informative! But I still have two questions:
1. Do you add the burnt alum?
2. There are many varieties of Linseed oil (Raw, sun thickened, stand oil...). What do you use to make your varnish.

Thank You
Matthias

[MANFIO]

Hi! I add some alum, but i don't know why.... the Venetian manuscript mentions "alume di rocca arso" and there is a debate about the exact meaning of that... so I just add alum.

I'm using Kremer's cold pressed linseed oil from Sweden.
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[Andres Sender]

Hi Manfio,

It has been a long time but I believe the oil was cooked with the rosin after the rosin was ‘run’, and I believe the Lundberg varnish was in fact walnut oil.

The Marciana Manuscript is in Merryfield’s collection, which can be seen for free at Google books. It includes a method for preparing the oil that would add significant cooking time.

[MANFIO]

Thanks Andres, the manuscript is here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=sKJpAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA603&dq=marciana+manuscript&hl=pt-BR#PPA700,M1

Some recipes include boiling linseed oil with water... have you ever tried that?
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[Andres Sender]

Manfio I have not tried it, the idea sounds crazy. They must mean that you have so much water that it is the water that is boiling, not the oil?

[actonern]

Is the burnt alum a way of neutralizing the acidity of the rosin?

[MANFIO]

I don't know. Here a discussion about this:

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=313316&st=0&start=0
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[MANFIO]

I just gave a look again on the manuscript recipes on that google book. I've noticed that the English translation of the Italian text is not all that good sometimes. For instance, in the Paduan manuscript, "acqua di colla tedesca" is translated to "German size", that is a different thing from "weak German glue size". Tranlating recipes is a tricky thing ("Tradutore, traditore": "translator, traitor"). But I may be wrong, or mad, or both!
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[Sharron]