Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

Shaving here is planing. But this planing is is not cutting a flat piece of wood in the best direction. Not planing with the grain.A violin peg is being planed around it`s grain. Sometimes it`s end grain.Sometimes the blade is going uphill against the grain. So the blade needs to be supersharp.
But that`s not enough. If you planed a flat surface like a table the blade needs to be flat across the plane but the edges of the blade need to be rounded enough to prevent tramlines forming .
A peg shaver you might buy ignores this basic principle of carpentry and has perfectly square ends. on the blade ends. What happens when you start to shave a peg? If you are careful and have a fine setting you will see the wood forming tiny splinters around the peg where the cutter meets the wood as it is pressed into the shaver.
If the shaver blades were bevelled at the leading edge the bevel would cut those splinters cleanly .
You need to keep the bevel cutting angle accurate to be sharp as well as the straight part .
Wood for pegs is best when there is hardly any grain difference whatever angle the wood is being cut. That makes Boxwood a permanent favourite. Sadly the shaving will peel of the carefully stained wood that has to processed with nitric acid fumes and then neutralised with ammonia . How disgusting is that ? Not a job I would volunteer for . Maybe wood stain can get past that horror
Ebony also has a tight consistent grain. Rosewood ,more open grain but not so tough and gets a good finish .
I was attracted to some pegs made of Palmwood which is not even a proper wood but a type of grass ,technically . The colourful stripes are caused by grain lines,which will tear themselves to pieces if you put them through a peg shaver. That is with a blade that easily slices the edge of a piece of notepaper .
I shall try one new peg with a bevel ended blade to see if that`s an improvement .

[John Cadd]

I bevelled the ends of all three blades on the outer leading edges (nearest the collars ). The bottom edges don`t matter . I used three grades of diamond plate to make sure all rounded edges were sharp. Then I used a leather strop that had been sprayed with 0,5 micron diamonds . That is equivalent to 50.000 grit ,as if anyone will count them . They all passed the notepaper edge test .I fitted the blades as parrallel as I could. Looking inside the shaver with white paper behind you could check the blade position . So the gaps were all even .
The brand new Palmwood peg was my first victim . The bevelled edge worked perfectly . A collection of dust was building up at the leading edge as the peg was turned . But No Splinters . I managed to get a perfect shiny surface as the diameter was reduced .
My shaver has 3 slots in reducing diameters .Adjusting the blades is a pain .The round headed straight slot screws are not as good as allen bolts.
I have a spare violin scroll that I use to test the peg fit .The separated scroll came with a broken violin .
The final stage is to get the peg to fit the 2 holes large and small .The spare scroll had very small holes for the narrow ends . I had opened these with the reamer to match the large holes which I left as they were.
My problem at the end was a ridge formed in the peg . The middle shaver was already able to reach the collar. The smaller shaver hole could only shave the end and then stopped shaving . But the ridge was resisting fitting in the spare scroll .
Because I had not changed the large hole sizes in the spare scroll I think they were too big. ## There needs to be a close match between the diameter of the smallest shaver slot and the largest hole in the scroll . ## Up till this point of indecision I had won a medal for a smooth peg . I should have checked the larger hole diameters first .
If you want to test your shaving skills --try a set of palmwood pegs. The most brittle and uneven grain structure you will ever see .You won`t be able to use the first lot but it makes fantastic practice . Ebony and boxwood will be a walk in the park after this .
Best tip is when you get near the collar stand the brass shaver on it`s end on the table so the peg cannot come past the end of the shaver . Check the peg length for that before you start . The collar is safe if you do that .
This post was edited for some clarity .

[John Cadd]

One piece of advice was to lubricate the cutting process with candle wax.In tried that and it did not improve the process .That tiny layer of wax will make it more inaccurate . If you really want lubrication you could try pencil lead which will not stick to the surfaces .
With the basic 3 part shaver the worst part is adjusting the blade angles. In between the largest and middle shaver holes in a raised step of brass. This is useful for moving the blades.On the end hole the blade has no raised step so micro adjustments are impossible. I remembered the points adjuster on a Honda 50 here .
The problem I had near the end was mostly due to the blade angles. Also each blade has 2 fixing screws .If you alter one screw at the bottom end it will make a change at the other end .The screws are set about one cm from the ends. With unhelpful screwheads and random (ie Visual )settings the dice are loaded against you .
To reduce the chances of failure the final measurements should be aimed at first . Sample shavings of wooden rods can be made for measurements of width or diameter for different blade settings. They can be compared to what shape the final peg holes need to be .The widest shaver hole can reduce the top end near the collar to avoid the ridge being left at the later stages. That will need a more skillful blade setting .
Hopefully the reamer is a good fit for the shaver. Is it a close fit? Very hard to tell . My shaver is made by Gewa in Germany .
This post edited to save confusion .

[John Cadd]

When the pegs are being shaved the holes in the pegbox should not be too big. When you shave the peg on the smallest hole , mark the end and then mark inside that point . The diameter of that inner mark should give the best size hole for the reamer . The final fit needs to have a 10mm gap between collar and pegbox . Leave a bit more for safety . Work out the standard diameters for violin pegs and then work back to the shaving .
My separated spare scroll had holes too large .
I tested the bevelled ended blades in the shaver and tried them on a spare set of old pegs. They were mostly ebony and the surface came out as smooth as plastic .

[John Cadd]

I tested the shaver after sharpening on a variety of old worn out pegs and I noticed Rosewood pegs do not clean off the excess fibres left near the collar.Ebony is left clean and tidy . Rosewood is easy to shave but I don`t like that clean up part .Worst peg wood so far is brittle Palmwood .It may work as pegs but the surface is not as consistent as ebony or rosewood .It has natural gaps between grains even when cutting cleanly .Relable friction needs reliable grain structure .
I have not tried Jujube wood so far but it needs no staining and has a similar colour to stained boxwood .

[John Cadd]

I overlooked one very simple way to set the shaver blades.Loosening the two screws and getting the blade straight along the taper would be simple by sliding a thin piece of plastic in the gap ahead of the cutting edge . Just find a few pieces of plastic of different thickness to see which works best .
Round headed straight slot screws are just an annoyance and should be replaced with cross heads or allen keys .
The best check is to test some tapered pieces of wood by rotating them in the peg box. If both contact areas on the peg both look shiny you can safely shave the pegs.Just keep checking the fit and clearance .
Boxwood has an unusual history inside molding planes . The sliding surface in the grooves is boxwood which was cut into narrow strips. Then the pieces were lined up and glued in a sawtooth pattern. Then the zig zag shape was cut in a straight line. That straight line was the slanted end grain facing forwards to resist the friction as the molding plane was used .
Not even ebony could do that .remarkable job . There is a video showing the complete process .Every violinist should appreciate boxwood as a remarkable wood . That is why bushings are made of boxwood . I made some bushings from Maple and they were not very good .

[John Cadd]

I bought a set of Black Wood pegs on Ali Express. In fact they were white stained wood.Not very hard either . But they were usefull to begin some checks on unknown pegboxes . It`s important to start with a reamer that matches the peg shaver you have. The two unjnown peg boxes had narrow end holes and wide peg end holes . Using the reamer it took a while to see any contact or shavings at the wide ends. The second spare scroll with neck attached was far better . Only one peg slot needed much reaming .
A new set of Jujube wood pegs with pretty shaping and contrasting black collars and pips arrived. After a few turns in the shaver they fi perfectly . The fourth hole will be bushed with Boxwood . The new stubs are already glued in .
Jujube is a nice unstained colour and texture . No splintering like palmwood .The Ali site had labelled them as Rosewood but they were Jujube . But now I have learned the trick of shaving pegs I would like to try Palmwood to see the wonderful shiny peg shaft if you get it right .
I made sure to set the blade angle with a piece of plastic cut from the top of a pot of dried milk .

[John Cadd]

Ebony pegs on ebay are fantastic value. Four sets of pegs which is Sixteen pegs .All have brass collars and buttons.Free postage and they average out at less than one pound per peg .The shaping is very consistent and almost a perfect fit in my spare scroll that is so useful as a quick check .The clearance between collar and pegbox is well over 10mm .More like 20 mm .
Only the lip temperature test is needed for certainty .
The Jujube set of pegs (on Ali) with Kidney shapes and self coloured wood ( like boxwood without needing staining ) and black details are a real showpiece.
These pegs bought in the West would eat up all your pocket money .

[John Cadd]

I bought some packets of sandpaper .A mixed packet from coarse to fine . That`s normal for most woodwork jobs . A newer product I bought was oblong pieces of superfine abrasives fixed to soft foam rubber about 7mm thick . Abrasive both sides and very flexible .Ideal to do minor adjustment to the tuning pegs .Paper abrasive will not adapt to the curves on a peg .The ebony pegs I bought needed hardly any changes apart from the narrow ends that were a tiny bit tighter than the thick end.After a short visit to the peg shaver ,like half a turn the fine foam pad can be wrapped around the peg end to smooth out any catches the peg made inside the shaver. I think the larger peg shaft diameter has to be the most important of the two . If the narrow end grips more you feel the peg twist . The best test is the clever dry lip test to sense temperature differences at the contact areas after twisting the pegs to build some friction .
A large change happens with new pegs in a new scroll . Dry pegs start to creak and jam tight. Peg dope quickly changes that to firm ,smooth control

[John Cadd]

A lot of advice comes about fitting the pegs and testing the peg temperature with your lips after winding them in the hole . That temperature test works with dry pegs and new scrolls and no lubrication .As soon as you use any soap or lubricant there is hardly any friction to create a temperature difference. It`s a lot more fussy and uncertain .If you do it dry don`t push too hard on the pegs.

[John Cadd]

One amusing part of this peg job came near the end. I measured how far the pegs stood away from the pegbox .It was about 20 mms and at the end of the day I thought to finish that off later when they would be put nearer 10mm from the pegbox . But to keep the violin safe I tried to put it in the case . No chance. The pegs stuck out too far for an older violin shaped case.So I removed the G and D pegs The D was put in the spares box and the G was left beside the violin . I don`t like mixing up pegs .
It still stsrtles me how cheap these lovely ebony pegs were .Brass collars and buttons on Ali Express .
The pegs need to be cut shorter after fitting and when you saw the ends off just stop short and tap the loose end to get a sense of the ebony grain direction . Some recommend drilling the holes across the grain for strength against string tension . Personally I would not bother but some might like the refinement .
I made a mess of trying to drill the holes on the first two pegs .I had a hole drilled and reamed out of hardwood.The plan was to measure outside the hole and drill down but when I made that hole it might not have been exactly square to the surface . That put the first drilling off to one side . Similar to a lookalike geared peg that has a central metal shaft and the string hole sits to one side.

[John Cadd]

If you have drilled a perfectly central hole in a peg take a pat on the back .Well done. Now pretend that is the E string peg. Hold it with your right hand and look straight through the hole.It`s 50/50 above the hole and below the hole. If you missed the centre line it could be one quarter down from the top --25/75. When you thread the string in the hole and turn it to tune upwards the strongest part of the peg takes the tension. so it`s not a disaster.
When you are cutting a peg in the shavera sharp blade is important but some advice is to make the blade act as a scraper . This seems more tricky and my trick to align the blade edge with a piece of plastic should work if the plastic is the right thickness .Try to experiment on spare pegs that you can sacrifice . There will be a setting where no blade contact is made .Work out what plastic thickness gets you just enough contact .
I don`t know much about the geometry of conical slots in metal .I only imagine one straight ,even thickness ,plastic gauge will get the best result .
Replacing the awkward round headed straight slot screws is a nuisance.You need the same type of thread to tighten the fixing screws .Do Gewa parts from Germany use the same thread system as UK suppliers ?
Sharpening a peg shaving blade is easier with a Pin Vice. The blade will not fit in the jaws with finger pressure .You need to twist a screwdriver to open the jaws a tiny bit .The handle is as long as a pen .Then use a 30 degree angle to get a nice sharp edge .

[John Cadd]

What I call the Golden Rule for rounding the edge of straight plane blades is based on very practical sensible reasons. Imagine planing a table surface .You need to plane in many directions to get the table level when using hand tools . A straight blade with sharp straight corners will leave "tram lines" along the grain. Crossing that direction the tram lines will also create thousands of splinters . That would make the job impossible for any carpenters or cabinet makers . Two hands full of splinters every day would be an impossible situation . Tables covered in blood stains would not be popular either .

[Michael Darnton]

And yet at least 12 generations of makers over the entire face of the earth have managed to get this job done without making a mess of it, using straight blades.
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[John Cadd]

You really dislike this thing of rounding the cutting edge . But it works with Palmwood which is an extreme wood looking for a way to splinter .
By the way ,where did all those 1.8 Million views come from? Maybe a lot of makers from all over the planet and centuries did not get it all perfect . Or maybe loads of them were rubbish .A change in writing style now .Not so good for forums though .Exaggerate and destroy .
There must be some tiny interest in this topic or why do we have 1.8 Million views . But this forum is not speaking to past generations all over the world. They will mostly be dead anyway .Some violin making is being de skilled with ready made necks and scrolls with Fingerboards attached . Same applies with ready made ,expensive peg shavers that do it all for you as if sharpening a pencil . Less skill needed all round .