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wm_crash Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2013 Posts: 140 Location: Wilmington, DE - USA
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:38 am Post subject: Bow hair |
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Yes, bow hair. I have every possible question and none of the answers. I ordered two hanks off eBay just to test waters, read some articles on processing - and how it's all done in China now - and I am just about ready to buy a horse farm and reserve a good part of the land to start up a pernambuco forest.
I am curious what you guys do about hair: individual hanks vs. large quantity, you sort each hair or just trust what's there, you use a hair thickness gauge or just feel by hand, you sample tensile strength or not, you rosin it to see how well it sticks before using it for a bow or not.
I'd also be curious to know if the hair is collected by shearing it or by yanking it off the tail. I have a few friends with horses (not sure if any of the horses are white), but I may just ask for a hank or two just for kicks.
cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan |
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whatwasithinking Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Posts: 230 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I probably have more questions than answers, too.
Did you see the video Ed posted in the Resources thread? Pretty interesting to see how they put the hair hanks together. I read somewhere that a lot of the hair comes from slaughter houses, so they get the entire tail at once. That may help keep the strands together with their original orientation, I guess. My teacher bought hanks that were of good quality, but there was still a lot of culling required. Perhaps you can pay more and buy perfect hair, but I'm guessing that costs much more. Seems like I've spent 45 minutes just culling out the bad hairs on a cello bow rehair. I'm probably just slow, though. This is another of those topics where opinions abound. Thicker hair at frog? Mix it in both directions? Stallion hair only? Mongolian only? Lightest color hair possible? Make hair thicker toward playing side of bow? And my teacher did use a hair gauge. Seemed to save a lot of time.
I'll bet Craig and others can offer much more on this topic. |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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whatwasithinking wrote: |
I probably have more questions than answers, too.
I'll bet Craig and others can offer much more on this topic.
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Ok, I'll have a go at this.
If your goal is simply to become a bow oriented repair or rehairing person, or to just learn rehairing - leave most of those questions for simply having fun doing research on the internet.
Realistically any hair MUST be bought from a hair or violin parts supplier. Most of them will do just fine, as far as quality goes. Particularly from a beginning standpoint, or from a non "first rate, professional" point of view. Just starting out? Don't worry about it much.
I've used maybe fifteen or twenty different hair dealers through the years, and will not give a personal recommendation for individual quality per dealer, as I have no such information to give - but I'd be willing to bet a decent finished bow, that Lief Luscombe right here, deals with perfectly good hair a fair price...
I buy it either by the lb. or by the kilo - depending on the circumstances.
On the other hand, learning WHAT TO DO WITH IT, is a hands on learning experience. I learned what I know, first, from Brian Robertson, of Robertson Violin in Albuquerque NM.
He knew a genuine interest when he saw it, and (like most top notch craftsmen) spent a couple of full days teaching me the particulars. (At a most fair (arbitrary, I suspect) price - again, thanks Brian!)
I met with him and then after a year I went back (rehairing school bows all the while) and I swear, the subtleties that showed up on the second visit were amazing.
All I can really offer anyone, is my "Notes on Rehairing" (about 40 xerox pages) and my "Rehair DVD".
Now, I offer them free to anyone who shows an interest. Just email me your mailing address, and I'll send off copies. Poor quality copies I must admit - as I don't care to spend much $ on such a freebie.
xxxctviolin@gmail.comxxx _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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ctviolin wrote: |
- but I'd be willing to bet a decent finished bow, that Lief Luscombe right here, deals with perfectly good hair a fair price...
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Sorry - did I spell that name correctly?
Or, would that be Lemuel Violins...
Sorry. _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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wm_crash Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2013 Posts: 140 Location: Wilmington, DE - USA
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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LMAO, I watched that video so may times but only this morning did it occur to me that it's you. And even a few days ago as I was watching it, I was telling my wife that the left forearm setup if for dialysis. Just never made the connection.
cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan |
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whatwasithinking Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Posts: 230 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Craig,
You probably answered all of my questions in your videos. Just goes to show what a poor student I am!
Bob |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:55 am Post subject: |
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whatwasithinking wrote: | Craig,
You probably answered all of my questions in your videos. Just goes to show what a poor student I am!
Bob |
Well Bob,
Because of your specific inclination and question line up in the post above, I will add this:
Generally, I simply put the darker (urine & etc stained) tip of the tail hair in at the tip of the bow, because it is much thinner as a bunch, as is the usual tip mortice - and the clean end (the, actually much thicker end) usually goes in at the frog.
Because the tip mortice (with the wedge in place) slot is usually quite a bit smaller than the frog mortice and the ferrule slot- the hand made /adjusted ferrule wedge, takes care of any problems getting a correct fit there at the frog end anyway... right?
In the odd circumstance that the tip is very large (on a violin bow), or, the bow is (perhaps) a viola or cello bow - with a much larger tip mortice - then I might switch 1/2 of the hair - end to end, just to make the bundle even. Or - just for "fun", or to do something slightly out of the ordinary.
But to be honest, usually that isn't done (it won't hurt anything - may even technically help some bows) but you just don't usually see it done on any (or many) bows.
The usual rule is "dark end of the hair goes towards the tip - light hair towards the frog".
I say, that anyone claiming a magical, tradition ridden reason, for always doing it this one specific way, is simply "blowing wind". It can be done either way with no problems.
In fact, I could easily see it become a sort of trademark for some rehair-ers. "Yeah, that's my work - look, the way the hair is evened out".
Gotta admit - the job is a fun, tradition ridden job in some ways - still, it's a cool job to become adequate at and to become used to doing any bow difficult or not.
(Ok - I admit - I'm challenged!) _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Here are my thoughts...
first, almost any horse hair will work... but before you get any ideas, if you want a quality job, use the very best there is available. I use only Siberian, unbleached, stallion hair.... from a reliable and reputable source.
Siberian because it is cold climate hair (stronger and more consistent), although nothing wrong with Mongolian (a little warmer climate I think) even Canadian or Argentinian hair is quite good. Siberian hair tends to be whiter on average naturally and I think that makes the rehair more attractive.
Unbleached because bleaching takes out some of the natural resilience of the hair making it more brittle.
Stallion hair because anatomically a mare contaminates her tail with uric acid spray, and that makes it more brittle.
I do offer a service to fiddlers who own their own horses.... Bring me hair of min. 30" from your horse, and I'll rehair your bow with it.
I charge twice as much because of the extra work of sorting, and cleaning.
The result though is quite satisfactory, in fact many prefer it, but I am sure there is some bias involved. Generally the hair that is brought in is cut from under the tail. I've heard that if you cut the horses tail to a stub it won't grow back... but have not been able to confirm the story. Just to be safe, I do say to my clients to cut selectively from the underside.... at their, and the horse's peril! Btw... the hair does not have to be white. Generally they bring in either black or brown hair.
I buy the Siberian hair in bulk, I use a hair guage to start and then adjust according to the individual bow. I rehair tip first and the lighter color end to the tip. Reversing direction makes rather little difference in my opinion because I use 32" hair meaning that a lot of the thinner ends get cut off and discarded.
Finally, take CT up on his offer for his notes... well worth it. Also, as CT said, the hair from Lemuel is great.
https://www.violins.ca/supplies/bow_parts/bow_hair.html
Cheers... let us know how you make out!... Cheers, Mat |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Another point... Many are of the opinion that no one really knows where the hair comes from, Siberia, Mongolia, China, Russia, whatever. My experience has been that quality Siberian hair has been consistently high in quality.
Perhaps if the locale naming has become a method of standardizing quality and type, rather than actual location, then I suppose I can work with that.
Cheers, Mat |
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