Violin Forum/Message Board

Mat Roop · Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: removing amateur varnish

This thru neck violin appeared in my shop and the client wanted it restored as it is a family relic.
The top cracks have been repaired many moons ago, but are now still loose. It has been varnished real rough over the original.
Question ... what is the best way to tackle the removal of the offending varnish without damaging the original underneath. The original varnish is spirit type.
Thanks!... Mat

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Does the family/client expect it to be delivered back as a playing instrument or just as an improved looking "heirloom"?

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:47 am Post subject:

For sure this will be a playing instrument... I'll be pulling the top off, regluing any questionable joints and redoing the cracks properly. I have the white MOP to replace missing pieces on the back. The neck stop will be a bit short but that I won't change.
The varnish layer removal leaving the original intact is what I have not done before... and any advice would be appreciated!
Cheers, Mat

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject:

....depending on what I find inside, I might even redo the bass bar.
Cheers, Mat

Michael Darnton · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:15 pm Post subject:

You're talking about the varnish retouch mess over the crack, right? I'd start by trying to carefully scrape it off, working down through it, hopefully finding original varnish underneath, not a mess of stained wood.
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R Mac · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:15 pm Post subject:

Mat,

I am looking forward to seeing how you tackle the replacement of the inlays. I have some tailpieces that need new inlays, and am not sure how best to make the pearl fit the hole, rather than the other way around.

Mac

Chet Bishop · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject:

R Mac · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Chet. The dremmel sounds like powerful technology and the dust mask sounds like good advise.

I can imagine how to cut the pearl out to a shape. And, I can imagine how to cut a recess to accept the pearl. I am having trouble imagining a good way to get a piece of pearl to fit an existing recess, without a lot of trial and error.

Mac

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject:

Michael Darnton · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject:

Water may distort the wood temporarily, but it will come back to where it was. More importantly, if there's a glue ground under the varnish, you can start to dissolve that, which will cause the varnish to lose contact and come off intact, in small "sheets". So be careful.

Removing overvarnish is always a dicey thing. If you can let yourself do it, you can steel wool off some of it--the glare at least. Your objective shouldn't be to remove it, but to achieve a look that's appropriate to the rest of the instrument. The way to really do it is something restorers don't like to talk about in public--it's high risk, and higher risk if you haven't learned with someone watching over your shoulder to alert you when things are going wrong and you haven't realized it yet. Shellac overcoating, which is disturbingly common, is notorious for causing very bad things to happen in trying to get it off.

Ammonia. . . ehhhh. . . . maybe not. It may do the job, but it may also deliver some surprises that you don't want, due to the reactivity of many colors to an alkaline environment.
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Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject:

R Mac · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:18 am Post subject:

Mat,

I had thought of the idea about taking a rubbing, and wondered how to "interpret" the results. Do you cut your template to include any of the pencil mark? I suppose it's one of those things that becomes obvious once you do it.

Making a casting of the recess sounds like a lot of trouble, but it would tell you more about the angles of the walls of the recess than the paper rubbing would.

The other thing that came to me was using chalk or soot to see where the new inlay was making contact....but you probably thought of that already.

Mac

MWard · Junior Member Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Posts: 17

I have done a lot of pearl restoration, and your idea of the paper template is how I do it. The best cutting tool for pearl is a jeweler's saw with a 0000 blade. Go slow and you can follow the lines of the template very closely. After cutting, use needle files and sandpaper to fine tune it to size. The only other advice would be to make sure the larger piece of pearl is thick enough to account for the depth of the hole--- it may need to be thicker because of the curve of the back. Also, replace the pearl before doing the varnish job because you will have to take the height of the pearl down after it is glued in. that way you won't have to worry about scratching up the varnish you just worked on.

The fiddle I play every day had a boogery layer of tabletop varnish or something on it when I got it. I removed it with micromesh, moving slowly and carefully. When I sanded through the unwanted varnish, I could actually see a line where I had feathered off the nasty stuff and gotten to the oil varnish beneath it. Your results may differ because of the varnish on there beneath the nasty stuff, but mine turned out pretty good.
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