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bttay Junior Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: Best way to repair a dislocated/broken violin neck joint? |
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Hi,
Anyone here has experience in repairing a dislocated/broken violin neck joint?
Sometimes the glue surfaces of the violin neck joint are not properly done in the factory that they don't fit neatly which makes the joint very weak. Is there any way to reinforce it?
Thanks.
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MANFIO Super Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 458 Location: Sao Paulo
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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There are many possibilities: the neck is broken, the neck is not resisting to the string tension, the neck is not aligned properly, etc.
If there is no problem with playability leave it as it is, in the other case take it to a luthier, it's a rather complicated job. In the case you want to try "do it by yourself" try to read something about the subject and just use new, hot hide glue. _________________ www.manfio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7875988@N02/with/464604020/ |
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Chet Bishop Super Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
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My understanding of what you asked is that you have a violin whose neck has already come off-- is this right?
You can carefully re-fit the joint so that it DOES fit correctly, and tightly, then re-glue it with hot hide glue, as Manfio says. Make sure the neck angle is correct, and that the centerline of the neck lines up with the centerline of the body. If the joint fits properly, this is pretty easy to do, and is a very strong joint-- it does not need reinforcement. |
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Jack H. Super Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 346 Location: Israel
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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from what I understand the neck has come loose and it is not a good gluing surface.
THis happens on factory violins.
The neck must be removed, and the mortice must be filled with a new block of wood. THe neck needs to be flattened at the sole and the heel, might even need an extension. the sides also need to be cleaned up and straightened.
then measurements need to be taken to ensure the propper angle and bridge height. then the filled mortice needs to be cut out to accept the neck, the neck needs to be refit and then any touch up varnishing and then string it up.
THis is a basic list, not going into detail about procedure.
Yes it can be fixed.
Jack H. |
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bttay Junior Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys,
Sorry for not describing the problem clearly. Yes the neck has come out. I have tried to repair a few of this type of violin/viola. So far not getting satisfactory result.
Thanks Jack, for the procedure. It seems to be a major repair work progress. Is there any detail of such procedure available online that I can refer to? |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Try to view a copy of The Art of Violin Making by Chris Johnson and Roy Courtnall or ....Violin Restoration by Hans Weisshaar and Margaret Shipman... They both have good details on resetting a neck.
If you have none of these available to you and are determined to do it yourself... let us know and we will try to help...
Cheers, Mat |
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bttay Junior Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Mat Roop wrote: | Try to view a copy of The Art of Violin Making by Chris Johnson and Roy Courtnall or ....Violin Restoration by Hans Weisshaar and Margaret Shipman... They both have good details on resetting a neck.
If you have none of these available to you and are determined to do it yourself... let us know and we will try to help...
Cheers, Mat |
Dear Mat,
Thank you of your recommandation. Unfortunately, the books are not readily available in my country.
Would be very grateful if you could help me with the questions below:
1. Do I have to remove the top plate and fingerboard before the repair?
2. What wood do I use if I need to refill the mortice?
3. What glue is best for the job? Hide glue? White glue?
4. How should I measure to ensure that the angle is right? I have a neck angle gauge how should I use it?
Sorry to bother you with so many questions. Thank you. |
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Chet Bishop Super Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Forest Grove, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: |
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1. You should not have to remove the top or fingerboard.
2. IF you need to fill the mortise, try to use similar wood. (Sometimes they are willow, sometimes spruce or other woods.)
3. HIDE glue! ...only hide glue.
4. You will have to cut a little and try the fit, then scrape a little more, etc. When it fits correctly, the fit should be snug, so that it requires some finger pressure to get the neck to seat all the way against the button, but it should fit all the way around, AND flat in the mortise-bottom. Some peopl;e use chalk to check and chieve a perfect fit.
Put a blank bridge on the violin, held with a rubber band. With the bridge in the proper place, sight down the fingerboard to see that the neck is centered on the bridge... Then check, using your angle gauge, or simply use a straightedge to check the projection.
When you are sure everything is correct, prepare your clamps, and check to see that everything works correctly. Warm the mortise and heel with a hair dryer, then brush the hot, strong hide glue into the mortise, and seat the neck heel quickly, checking all the angles one last time. Apply the clamps, and let it sit for at least an hour or so. Clean up with warm water. I would not string it up until the next day.
Probably others will remember something I am forgetting...but it is a pretty straight-forward job. And pretty satisfying.
Good luck with it. |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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bttay... Chet has the right advice!
What I do for the neck angle is that I have a full size raw bridge. I mark it on one side with the correct final bridge height of 33mm at the center and I have another line at 27mm at the center representing the projection of the finger board. Be sure the bridge is in exactly the correct position front to back and side to side. I hold the bridge in place with a length of stiff wire (like a coat hanger wire) shaped like a square "C" the end that goes thru the f hole and placed under the center of the bridge is smooth and rounded so you can move it about, and the other end is sharp and placed on the center of the top of the bridge. You can ajust the tension just by bending the wire. I find this is easier to place the bridge exactly than elastic bands. When I fit the neck I don't use the angle guage, I sight onto the marked bridge and when the dry fit is perfect... then get ready to glue but remember that the fit of the neck into the mortice will be tighter with the glue than dry. The faster you work, the better...that is why several complete dry tests including the clamping are so important.
When you mix the hide glue it should be well dissolved at max 60 degrees C and should run off the stir stick like honey, and not drip.
Good luck! Mat |
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