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pmccombs
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Utah
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: Sycamore and Pear Wood? |
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Russel's questions put me in mind about tone woods. Recently I've been reading some of the old literature on violins that you can get over at http://www.gutenberg.org/ because it is out of copyright.
I read that Stradivari used a lot of plane tree, or sycamore wood, in his violins (some of it slab cut). I suspect that the authors who made these claims might have meant the sycamore maple, also known as the false plane tree, which is not at all related to the plane tree. Is that true?
There is also a claim that sometimes pear wood was used. Would that be something like the domestic fruit tree I'm familiar with? There's also an ornamental pear that is popular. The sycamore and pear would have been for the back, sides, and neck I suppose. |
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tomigv
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Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 50
Location: lee/s summit mo
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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The pear tree has several variations in europe , and all over the world , same with sycamore .American sycamore is actually called buttonwood,and is not related to euro sycamore .The only pear wood locally here in KC is bradford pear,I have some, it/s off white grainless, and makes great veneer,It/s hard but carves nicely, the american sycamore is closer in density to mahogany .I like it for carving as well.
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I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods, |
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pmccombs
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| tomigv wrote: | | The pear tree has several variations in europe , and all over the world , same with sycamore .American sycamore is actually called buttonwood,and is not related to euro sycamore .The only pear wood locally here in KC is bradford pear,I have some, it/s off white grainless, and makes great veneer,It/s hard but carves nicely, the american sycamore is closer in density to mahogany .I like it for carving as well. |
It sounds like I could use local sycamore (buttonwood) for guitar work, but probably not violins. I'm pretty convinced now that the sycamore referred to in relation to old violins is actually what we in my neighborhood would call simply a maple tree. I believe it's the very same species that I see lining local city streets and in the yards of my neighbors. They aren't natural around here, but are planted for shade and ornamentation. Some of the big or bent ones can get the fancy curled fibers that are desired for veneers and musical instruments.
I have wood from domestic fruit trees: cherry, apricot, and pear. I wondered if my pear wood would be the same as that described in the old violin books, maybe used in violin necks. It seems that fruit woods in general are very hard, and might made good fittings. I have a cherry wood bow too. I also have lots of willow, which I thought to cut to make my own violin linings.
I'm curious about wood species because I want to be able to procure local woods to build up an inventory. Right now, I have no way to select wood for tonal qualities (even if I knew how). It's pretty much the case that I must make a special order every time I want to do a build and hope that the wood I get is of good quality. Quality, for me, means that it "looks nice."
Anyway, I live by some nice pine forests where I have no doubt there are old Engelman spruce logs for the taking, and I'm sure local landscapers have seen their share of maple and so forth.
When I was at my violin teacher's shop in Minnesota, a dealer stopped by with a load of tone woods to choose from. He had been to another shop in the area where the maker would float the pieces and choose based on some characteristic of the wood in water. My teacher seemed to dismiss that method and made his selection on some other criteria. If I knew what to look for, I could probably choose suitable woods from whatever species are available. |
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Michael Darnton
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1286
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'm betting the person who referred to Strad and sycamore was English. Those English violin writers of the late 1800s tended first to not be very accurate, and second, to frame everything in their local understanding of it. So I wouldn't take them too seriously.
Cellos, modern and historical, are made of all sorts of woods other than maple; violas less so; and violins, pretty much only maple. I've only seen a couple of old violins of stray woods-- beech, and curly poplar, I think.
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Russell
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Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Could it be that he floated the wood in water to determine the sap content , sap will make wood heavier and less likely to float. |
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pmccombs
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Darnton wrote: | | I'm betting the person who referred to Strad and sycamore was English. Those English violin writers of the late 1800s tended first to not be very accurate, and second, to frame everything in their local understanding of it. So I wouldn't take them too seriously. |
I think this is the case, and I have already learned all sorts of erroneous, yet exciting history from those old books. 
My first violin Making book is by the English Savant, Edward Herron-Allen, who wasn't even a Violin Maker by trade. I understand the book is perhaps more accurate than the older texts by English authors that I find on Project Gutenberg, and is still a popular resource to this day. |
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okawbow
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Southern Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: sycamore |
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| My neighbor has an old cello with the neck and sides made from plane or American sycamore. Interesting also, the back and top are both spruce. It has a great sound. |
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