Violin Forum/Message Board

[mikebee]

A professional maker once told me that the sides of an instrument have no effect on tone production whatsoever and are there merely to hold the front and back apart.

I'm intrigued by this view of things and am thinking of making my next violin using .8 or 1.6mm. ply for the sides, veneered with maple of course.
Just to test the idea. Any views anyone?

Is this maker mad? Am I mad?

[Michael Darnton]

The maker was definitely wrong. I would not make plywood sides for the same reason I'd make sure they're close to the normal 1.0mm rather than any thicker.
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[mikebee]

Thank you - but as far as thickness is concerned .8mm plus veneer is, of course, very close to 1mm.
Is there anything about the actual ply material itself that makes it
unsatisfactory for this purpose? You say the maker is 'wrong' - is it generally held that the sides do in fact influence the tonal result?

[Michael Darnton]

Veneers are not the same as a single thickness of wood. They're stiffer, differently stiff, and one could argue that the glue layer adds another facet of strangeness to it.

Yes, to repeat, the maker who told you thickness doesn't matter is full of #$%^.

You know, a single thickness of wood has worked fine for 400 years. Even in guitar making it's considered less desirable to use multiple layers. Why are you so intent with messing with something that works well, when the alternative is proven to work poorly? Maker death wish?
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[mikebee]

Thank you Mr. Darnton
I'll certainly take your advice and continue doing the same as everybody else! I'm not really intent on messing with things - my thoughts about thin ply+ veneer came about from the idea of perhaps avoiding all that boring planing, scraping and sanding of the sides, in addition to the fact that I like to use highly figured sides and have so much trouble with
cracking! Anyway - thanks again.

[Chet Bishop]

I'm pretty sure most makers break a few ribs when they are just starting out. Especially the highly figured wood. I have only used highly figured ribs, so I broke quite a few to begin with. Now i hardly ever break one.

I think the reason they break is rooted in either not allowing the wood to heat all the way through before attempting the bend, or not holding the strap firmly enough to prevent breakage.
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[kubasa]

"or not holding the strap firmly enough to prevent breakage."

This was certainly the case for me. For whatever reason, I couldn't get along with the metal strap I was using. I ended up using a strap that I made out of one of the thick sanding belts used on floor sanders. Works great and I'm not breaking ribs any more!

[Joseph Leahy]

Interesting, do you have a picture of your home made strap? Thanks.

Joe

[kubasa]

Hi Joe - it's nothing special really. I will take a picture as soon as I get my new (used) camera lens in the mail next week. My lens broke about 9 months ago and so I've been without a camera. I finally broke down and bought a lens for it. This will give me a chance to test it out!

James

[Joseph Leahy]

Thanks James

Sometimes the "nothing special really" ideas are good ones. Going to be bending my first set of ribs shortly (after some practice on some junkers) and this will give me another way to experiment with until I find out what works for me.

[John Cadd]

I always bend the sides standing up. I noticed I keep my hands and body in the same position and pivot from the ankles. I concentrate on holding a gentle pressure on the wood being bent with my hands.It came about without me thinking it through. Making an effotrt to be patient with the wood seems to work best. I always have the wood wet and the heater is below the scorching temperature. If it`s stubborn wood get as far as you can and then leave it till the next day in that position. Work out a half way clamp position. OR decide if you want an attractive box or a nice tone. What is your priority? Plain wood will not hurt the tone at all.

[Dave Chandler]

If one has very stubborn wood to bend, you can break down the lignin (not sure of the spelling)in the fibers by UNbending and then rebending the piece. It's a technique furniture makers use for bending large pieces of maple, and it has worked somewhat for me with wood that doesn't seem to want to go the full bend. Like bending, unbending requires same patience and touch.
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[kubasa]

Okay, I finally received my lens and was able to take a few photos. Here is belt strap that I use. I got the idea from someone else. I can't remember who though so unfortunately I can't give proper credit. In any case, the strap is just a strip that is cut from a large floor drum sander belt. If you have a wood floor finishing place near you, they will probably give you an old, used belt if you ask. That's what I did. Anyway, this is just what works for me.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_c364T3AaWmTTBPU1hqa2V0WVE/view?usp=sharing

[Joseph Leahy]